Synth. vs. Conventional... today!

[geeeman]

I began using synthetic oil about 10+ years ago...the temp. was - 25C; and I was topping up with some Pennzoil (I think?) 10W30 that was sitting in the unheated shop. The oil would NOT pour out of the bottle...I'm thinkin' this can't be real good for the engine, either. An enlightened mechanic friend said to try Mobil 1; I bought a liter of 10W30 just to see how it behaved at cold temps, purely a curiousity thing...it poured like, well, cold motor oil. Night and day compared to the almost solid conventional.

10 years later, is the synthetic vs. conventional argument still valid? It seems today that conventional oils have become very, very good. With reasonable OC intervals, are synthetics really necessary anymore, EXCEPT! in extremes...?

PS - I compared M1 0w40 to Pennzoil 5W30 on a
-20c night; the M1 poured better, but the Pennzoil was pretty good too...

I realize POUR and PUMP are two different things...but I can't eyeball pumpability.

Thoughts...and I DO know that a 10W30 isn't ideal at that temp...

 

[Ferrari]

I'm no oil expert, but the dino base stocks haven't changed. The same dino oil base stock 10+ years ago is the same as the base stock nowadays. The only thing that changed are the additives. It's true that the additives are much better now, but a dino oil that pours well at such a low temperature must be loaded with pour point additives. Synthetic oils are naturally much better at low temps, so I assume they are better since they contain much less additives.

 

[Jelly]

What's actually out there might not be different, but what were getting is vastly different (this same "thought" applies for many, many things...)

For example, ten years ago we were getting group I base oil.
Now, we're getting group II+.

Next....

 

[Alan]

It seems that it's all in the interval.

If your not looking for an extended interval and want to save money use a decent conventional.

Seems that a lot of the conventional 5W30 have pretty good cold weather behaviour now a days

 

[Jimbo]

This myth about wax and paraffins is never going to stop. Methane (CH4) is a paraffin. Modern Group II base oils are far superior to those the past. The gap may never close, but synthetics had less room to improve compared to conventional oils. My UOA's with Group II+ Delo have been excellent.

My own "freezer test" at 0F (-18C) had 10W-30 Pennzoil flowing slightly better than 10W-40 Syntec and 15W-40 Delo not much worse. All very good. Only the SAE 30 Coastal ND was a solid with waxy streaks.

 

[Terry]

In Alberta Canada, I would run a oil that pumps the fastest I can afford. Do what you need to do to compare borderline pumpability to each product you like and can procure. If you need up to date data I can provide that.

Amsoil is the absolute best at pumpability and fairly cost effective in the 5w-30 ASL and 10w-30 ATM products.

True, the hydrocracked, highly refined oils have narrowed the line between the products. Base oils and the total formulations have changed for the better in most ways in the past few years.

A Blend like Schaeffers 5w-30 7000 may be the ticket for you. pumps at -43C per ASTM D 3289.

[ November 13, 2003, 04:21 PM: Message edited by: Terry ]

 

[1maniac]

How much do the pour / pump properties change for an oil after its been in use for say 5k miles? 10k miles? Is it still the same?

 

[JohnnyO]

A while ago I was sitting in my bud's alignment shop waiting on my van, reading MOTOR Magazine. Not sold in stores, only gets sent to shops. Lengthy article on dino vs. syn. Basic conclusion was that for the average driver changing at the recommended intervals (me) it made no difference. If you towed, hauled heavy loads, lots of stop-n-go, OR if you made a lot of short trips where the engine didn't get fully warmed up (my mom) then you'd be better off with synthetic. I use it for the alledged gas mileage improvement, I figure it's better for the engine, and my money to buy it doesn't end up in the middle east.

 

[TR3-2001SE]

I think the main advantage of synthetics is keeping the engine cleaner than dino. I can see the difference in my two cars one on mobil 1 and the other on castrol GTX. Now if this auto-rx works out as advertized maybe we don't need synthetics. At least here in the sunny south.

 

[HOndaGuy]

syns are still better imo, id rather have no waxes and paraffins in the engine and its about an extra 10 bucks to go the m1 route(a total of 25 with filter unless i have a quart sitting around, its about 20). So really, I could care less about the price difference, i just want cleanliness, cold starts, better lubrication and stabilization of the engine.

 

[Jimbo]

quote:

---

Originally posted by JohnnyO:
... and my money to buy it doesn't end up in the middle east.

---

How so? Unless you run Redline, NEO or other ester-based synthetics, the feedstocks are still from crude oil. Polyalphaolefins and Alkylated Napthelenes are still hydrocarbons.

 

[GROUCHO MARX]

Of course Jimbo, gasoline is the major culprit. Motor oil is a drop in the bucket.

 

[buster]

I think some of the good dinos we see are excellent oils and have shown to be as good as any sythetic from 3-5k miles. Chevron Supreme and Pennzoil in particular.

 

[Mic]

Look here High Mileage Vehicle to see the mileage on my Toyota Corolla with dino and a fram oil filter.

Jeff

 

[geeeman]

Mic...you used FRAM's...shame on you!!!

So does my Dad, and his conventionally oiled 85 Nissan Maxima now has 200 000+ miles...and is still goin' good.

Haven't looked under a valve cover; so I have no idea if its sludged or not...but the car still starts and runs fine...

Frams and conventional oil must really SUCK!!!

Just kiddin'... I think the moral of the story is DO REGULAR oil changes, and modern engines will usually last a long time!

PS - I DON'T USE FRAMS!!!, or conventional oil; sometimes I ask myself why...!?!?

 

[geeeman]

Oh yeah...now I remember!

Cause changin' the oil on my car is HARD!
The filter is hard to get at, the drain plug threads are DELICATE!

And...I rev it to 7000 rpm, every day, and drag race it, auto-x it, and generally drive the...well you know!!!

 

[Mic]

quote:

---

Originally posted by geeeman:
Mic...you used FRAM's...shame on you!!!

---

geeman,
LOL. I just converted over to using Napa Gold filters after joining this site. I have even taken it a step further and changed from my favorite brand Havoline to M1 Super Syn in my truck with 7.5K on it. I am taking it all the way and changing my Camry to M1 SS as well with the Napa Gold. Once in a while you just have to have a good scotch instead of that beer.

Jeff

 

[JohnnyO]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jimbo:

quote:

---

Originally posted by JohnnyO:
... and my money to buy it doesn't end up in the middle east.

---

How so? Unless you run Redline, NEO or other ester-based synthetics, the feedstocks are still from crude oil. Polyalphaolefins and Alkylated Napthelenes are still hydrocarbons.

---

Shoot, I guess I have to buy Redline now.