Synth v Dino in new engine, dealers views

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I have bought a new Toyota Corolla wagon with 1.8 4 cylinder engine and want to dump initial fill and put in Mobil 1 10w30. One dealer service manager says not to do it till first service at 10000 kms, another says change at 3000 kms with dino then synthetic at 10000 kms service, both challenged my desire to use synthetics. Mobil tech helpline said put synthetic in any time, Toyota customer service helpline did not seem to know what I was talking about and refered me to my dealer (at least he was honest) What am I to do?
Roger
 
Roger,
some cars come equipped with synthetic, so changing ASAP is probably not a real concern.

I hate the concept of driving 10,000km on a new eninge without a change.

So I changed initial fill with dino at 2800, 6400, and went synthetic at 10,000.
 
In my opinion, I would change oil/filter at 5k with a good dino, then again at 10k with your preferred synthetic oil.
 
P.S. - In kilometers of course
smile.gif
 
Good question, when I bought my 03 Mustang Cobra I changed out the oil to M1 at 500 miles after breaking it in properly. It never used any oil and after 7k I ran it on a dyno and got 386 rwhp when many Cobras were only getting about 365-370. I later read that many people, including SVT Ford engineers, thought that it was better to run conventional (actually the Motorcraft is a blend) for several thousand miles before going to syn. On my 06 Mustang GT I waited until about 7k (miles) to change over. No problems with it either. My brother just bought a new Subaru Forester, which he loves. His dealer recommended waiting until about 10k to change over to syn.
 
On a new Toyota, as on many new vehicles, you can go over to a full synthetic whenever you want.

It seems both service managers have you waiting 10000 km., however. Sounds like they're old school folks.

If it were mine, I'd go at least 3-5k miles on a conventional or semi-syn before changing over. But I'm very old school, too.

This really is an issue that won't hurt you one way or the other. Were this a Honda or VW, it would be different.
 
There are more myths about break-in rituals than just about anything else. When it comes to changing to synthetic here are a couple of examples of what oil companies say on their "synthetic myths" page.

Pennzoil - The quality control on new factory built engines is so good that you can switch anytime you feel like it. Some engines have synthetic from the factory. However, they recomment that a shop rebuilt engine not use synthetic until the first oil change.

Translation - I think they don't want their synthetic oil in an engine at higher risk of seizing. Nothing to do with oil, just liability.

Quaker State - In the "old days" it was very common for manufacturers to put non-detergent oil in at the factory. The theory was it allowed controlled wear, and it was to be kept in for the first OCI. Today manufacturers don't put in non-detergent oil and you can switch any time you like.

Translation - Still seems like an old wives tale. Does non-detergent oil really provide more wear. I would expect it would result in more deposits and cleaner circulating oil compared to detergent oil.

My thoughts are that it does not matter. If anything it would seem to be an advantage to use a higher viscosity oil for the first few changes before switching to the standard oil.

On 10w30, not sure why you would buy that as a synthetic. A conventional oil in that viscosity grade is going to perform very similar to a synthetic.

On the issue of how many km before you do it, there probably is no technical reason to do it early, other than to switch from conventional to synthetic. I also think 10,000 km is too long for ongoing OCI's. Just my opinion. However if you qualify for the severe driving conditions as defined by Toyota, you may be putting your warranty at risk.
 
Dump your factory fill at 5k and then put in your synthetic if that is what you want. I do believe in the so called break in and controlled wear, however I believe this is done and over with before the 10k mark. What does your mobil cost you Aussies?
 
Yes I think I will drain out factory fill at 5k kms, fill with Havoline conventional 10w30 and start with synthetic at 10k kms to keep the dealership happy. Mobil 1 grade 10w30 costs around $83 aud which is about $110 usd for 5 liters.
Roger
 
According to a automotive technical trainer,Leave the factory fill engine oil at least 7500kms for proper break in.I know some cars factory fill with Synthetic fluids such as corvettes and Cadillac's but these cars suffering high oil consumption later on.
I may wrong but that's what i heard.If you fill up your engine with synthetic oil then allow longer break in time as synthetics will slow down the break in procedure.
Cheers.
Bob.
 
Bob
Did not know I could buy in bulk! I have a stash of 25 litres bought at sale prices at various times and I am using in my Kluger and will use in the Corolla eventually but when this runs out I will investigate bulk buying. Thank you.
Roger
 
In recent years I've changed the oil in my new cars at half the recommended OCI with conventional oil, then at the recommended OCI and after with M1.
Say the manual calls for an oil change every 5000, I'll do it at 2500 with conventional then at 5000 with syn.
 
quote:

Originally posted by toyota62:
According to a automotive technical trainer,Leave the factory fill engine oil at least 7500kms for proper break in.I know some cars factory fill with Synthetic fluids such as corvettes and Cadillac's but these cars suffering high oil consumption later on.
I may wrong but that's what i heard.If you fill up your engine with synthetic oil then allow longer break in time as synthetics will slow down the break in procedure.
Cheers.
Bob.


Hmmm, well I suppose some folks would consider one quart every 10,000 miles "high oil consumption", but I don't. Where'd I get the 10,000 mile number from? Both of my I6 engined BMWs came with a factory fill of synthetic and that was the oil consumption for both of them.

Regarding Corvettes and Cadillacs, the only oil consumption issues I've heard of were from the Northstar engines, and that was an engine design issue, not a synthetic oil issue.
 
This is only my third post but I think this is something I can comment on since I work for an auto manufacturer and am an ASE Certified Master Auto Tech. There is no way I would leave the factory fill in for more than 1,000 miles unless it was a leased vehicle. If it was something I wanted to keep a long time I would actually change the oil and filter at some point between 50-500 miles. The majority of "break-in" and break-in wear occurs within the first 50 miles. By the time the vehicle has travelled those 50 miles, the engine has made aproximately 200,000 revolutions (on average). By 500 miles, its made well over 1,000,000 revolutions and likely gone through several heat cycles.

My personal preference would be to change the oil at 500 miles to a full-synthetic, although you could certainly use a convential from 500 miles to whenever your next interval, your personal decision. I've had the chance to "break-in" two new engines in the past few years, one was a leased GMC truck, one a new Harley. I changed the leased truck oil at 7,500 per the owner's manual (with the cheapest oil and an AC filter each time) and every 7,500 miles thereafter. The truck never used more than 1/4 qt. between oil changes or had any mechanical problems during the 36 months/20,000 miles I had it. The Harley's oil was changed at 453 miles to full synthetic. This is the third season with the HD and it used about 4 oz. of oil this year, during stop and go traffic in Sturgis (90-100F) so far (4,000 miles) and, also has no mechanical problems. I also have a 2004 Grand Prix that I got with 8,000 miles on it. The original driver changed the oil once at around 5-6000 miles (when the OLM went off). I now use full-synthetic and use 0 oil between OCI's of 8,000 miles.

The only Cadillacs that I know of that use synthetic as factory fill are the "V" series and the XLR. The Cadillacs that had consumption problems in the past did NOT come with synthetic. I am unaware of a consumption problem with Corvette motors beyond the normal consumption if/when the vehicles are raced. I owned a 1994 Cadillac STS which was one of the common models known for consumption (4.6L Northstar) and I used synthetic oil consistently. I sold the car with 152,000 miles and it used about one quart between oil changes (10% oil life left, approx. 5K miles). Usually, it was about time to change the oil when it was one quart low. The person I sold it to used synthetic for 1 or 2 changes and then switched to conventional. After the first oil change to conventional he said he was using 1qt in less than 1,000 miles.

Long story short, several vehicles now come with synthetic from the factory and sometimes even the same engine is spec'd for synthetic for one model line/option level and for conventional for other lines/models. I doubt that the engines are manufactured or spec'd out any differently. Manufacturers know that certain customers are willing to pay for synthetic and other aren't. Perfect example: Corvettes and the late Trans Ams/Camaro Z28s. Same engine, different oil. Also, the CVO Harleys come with synthetic while the others don't. Same lower end, same machining of the cylinder walls, etc.

Determine how long you are keeping the vehicle. If it's beyond the BTB warranty, then at least change the oil (well) before 7500km.
 
The BMW Owner's Handbook (E28 5 Series) states:

"It is therefore up to you to ensure that full operating life and potential economy are
achieved by adhering closely to the following running-in rules.

For the first 2000 km (1200 miles), drive at varying engine and road speeds, but do
not exceed two-thirds of the permitted road speed in each gear. (4000rpm) Do not
use full throttle or kickdown position of the accelerator pedal at all during this period."

Maximum engine speed/road speed is 6000rpm. Therefore do not exceed 4000rpm.

"Remember that running-in rules also apply to other mechanical assemblies such as the
gearbox and rear axle, not just to the engine.

Should any such assembly be replaced at a later stage in the car's life, the running-in
procedure must be repeated."

..."avoid repeated hard brake applications, especially from high speeds, during the
first 500 km (app. 300 miles), and also prolonged severe loads such as when
descending lengthy mountain passes. During the running-in period, refrain from
subjecting the brakes to any form of endurance testing."

"After 2000 km (1200 miles) have been covered, you can gradually increase road
speeds to the specified cruising and top speeds of your car"...
 
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