Switching over to HM Oil

[buster]

After just spending $1k on replacing several seals on the Honda, I have become more interested in HM oils. HM oils do in fact contain more seal conditioners than your regular PCMO.

Right now there are several brands on the market:

Pennzoil HM 5w20
QS Defy 5w20 (mentions added seal conditioners on bottle)
Valvoline Maxlife
Valvoline Maxlife Full Syn (only in a 5w30)
Castrol GTX HM
Mobil 1 HM


I think Maxlife is probably the best HM on the market, but it's hard to say. Valvoline does apparently use some very good seal conditioners.

I was going to start running Pennzoil HM 5w20 or MaxLife Full Syn 5w30. I ended up going with M1 HM. The Pennzoil 5w20 HM is a conventional oil and the Maxlife 5w30 was nowhere to be found.

These oils are all excellent. I used to think they were mostly marketing, but there is a real use and purpose for these oils. Engine seals do wear out over time and seal conditioners can prevent leaks in higher mileage cars.

 

[JHZR2]

They may well wear out, but at 154k? Our integra, though an epitome of low quality Honda rubber part use, didnt drip or burn a drop of oil when we sold it with nearly 190k.

If seals fixed it, then why run HM oil? If operation causes consumption, that's maybe another story. Are you sure you were dripping out? My BMW consumes a bit under highway use, but some of it was the 21 yo vc seals around the plugs. But that was a 21 yr part, not a 7 yr part...

 

[buster]

Honda looked at my car 2 times over the last 2 weeks. Several things were apparently leaking: oil pan gasket, front crankshaft seal, VTC o-ring and timing chain case. All of it has been completely resealed.

As you know oil leaks can be tricky to pin point, but the oil pan gasket and cs seal were confirmed by myself, a small local shop and eventually Honda.

The car is 7 years old. I don't think it's that uncommon, but I was surprised it happened.

You're right, using a HM at this point maybe pointless, although it could help valve stem seals. There are additional seal conditioners in these oils. It's not just an ester additive.

So to prevent future leaking, I figured I'd use a HM oil.

 

[JavierG]

Wouldn't time be a bigger factor over total mileage when it comes to the seals?

 

[GROUCHO MARX]

Buster beats keerap out of an engine.

 

[buster]

Originally Posted By: JavierG
Wouldn't time be a bigger factor over total mileage when it comes to the seals?

Yes.

The increased seal conditioners of the HM oils are supposed to re-condition older seals. Some engines may never need a HM oil.

 

[Bill in Utah]

7 years old is not old IMO.

154,000 miles is really not that much and interesting that most of the time you ran "good" oils (ie syn) so I really would like to know why you are having problems.

Honda wise my Dad's 2005 Vue was leak or seep free till it got totaled last May and had over 100k on it. His 2001 Civic is still running and semi leak free (the new owner had the valves looked at and ever since then the valve cover leaks) but everything else is great at over 200k on it.

Maybe Groucho has something with how you use the engine over age or miles?

A grand worth for seals? Ouch....

Take care, bill

 

[Mark_S]

I have a Toyota, not a Honda, with over 270,000 miles on the engine (bought it new). I have been using Mobil 1 HM 10W30 since about 125,000 miles, and I change it between 7,000 and 8,000 miles. No drip leaks, but it uses about a quart between oil changes. The engine runs quiet and smooth, and I will keep on doing what I am doing.

 

[Dupree]

If you were wanting to run a synthetic id go for mobil 1 HM
For conventional maxlife HM (blend)
and for cheapest Mobil super HM is hard to beat for the money
or go for whatever HM is on sale of the ones listed lots of good choices out there. Lots will chime in about not liking HM. But I use them and there is no harm done using them, especially when obtained on sale like the good nextgen maxlife sales that just ended.

 

[Donald]

IMHO - I think HM oils should only be used when there is a leak in a seal like the crankshaft and one has tried other fixes but did not resolve the leak. Some seals get crud built up in front of the seal and that prevents oil from getting to and conditioning the seal. Using a high grade oil will clean away the crud and the seal may leak for awhile until the seal is conditioned. If I had easy to replace gaskets like a valve cover I would just replace them rather than expecting a HM oil to fix it. Valve stem seals seem to just get hard and crack and fall apart. Only a new seal will fix a broken-apart seal. Some seals or metal surfaces are damaged and nothing will help except replacement of damaged parts.

 

[The Critic]

Since buster has basically resealed most of his engin (with the exception of the cam seal and RMS), I would not bother with a HM oil.

This car was supposedly leaking a lot of oil.

Maybe the extended oil changes and synthetic oils had something to do with it.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: buster


The car is 7 years old. I don't think it's that uncommon, but I was surprised it happened.



I drive 30 yo cars that dont drip or consume any oil. Perhaps it is just expectations.

Consumption and leaking can happen, to me zero is the goal, and across a pretty diverse range of vehicles, I've had good luck.

If there is a leak, by all means fix it, and good on you to have done so and be proactive about preventing anything further. But especially from maker of all makers (especially for engines) Honda, to me this is a disappointment. I wouldn't expect or give a free pass because the car is an 05 or has 154k, both of which are nearly new in my book.

 

[ahoier]

Here's my take

You've just "replaced" the seals, so why go to a High Mileage oil now?

May as well go back to a conventional oil that meets the API/ILSAC requirements for that engine

Since you have "fixed" your problems.


Props to you though, you DID the right thing.....seals are one of the weak points.....they are rubber and eventually will fail...sure, additives and high mileage oils can "help" - but they were mask an ailing problem

Keep on using quality motor oil

 

[RedCorvette]

The reasoning for using HM oil that makes sense is that the old seals wore out quite quickly.

Perhaps his rubber needs more lubricating

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: RedCorvette
The reasoning for using HM oil that makes sense is that the old seals wore out quite quickly.

Perhaps his rubber needs more lubricating

IME Honda rubber parts are of poor quality. He did the right thing, most wouldn't. If other seals need conditioning due to not being replaced, then so be it...

 

[RedCorvette]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
They may well wear out, but at 154k? Our integra, though an epitome of low quality Honda rubber part use, didnt drip or burn a drop of oil when we sold it with nearly 190k.

If seals fixed it, then why run HM oil? If operation causes consumption, that's maybe another story. Are you sure you were dripping out? My BMW consumes a bit under highway use, but some of it was the 21 yo vc seals around the plugs. But that was a 21 yr part, not a 7 yr part...


Originally Posted By: JHZR2
IME Honda rubber parts are of poor quality. He did the right thing, most wouldn't. If other seals need conditioning due to not being replaced, then so be it...

 

[Bill in Utah]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: RedCorvette
The reasoning for using HM oil that makes sense is that the old seals wore out quite quickly.

Perhaps his rubber needs more lubricating

IME Honda rubber parts are of poor quality. He did the right thing, most wouldn't. If other seals need conditioning due to not being replaced, then so be it...


But many other Hondas have more miles, time or the same year with NO problems so how can it be a Honda has bad parts (or poor ones) if the problem is NOT in EVERY Honda?

Not a Honda system wide problem IMO. It IS something that either the batch of parts that Buster's engine was built in (which I sorta doubt since they build a TON of Honda's) or something to how Buster's use, climate, oils or such have after only 7 years and 154k miles caused the seals to fail.

If 7 year old Honda engines were requiring $1,000+ in seals we would have heard about it loud and clear.

Take care, Bill

 

[RedCorvette]

Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: RedCorvette
The reasoning for using HM oil that makes sense is that the old seals wore out quite quickly.

Perhaps his rubber needs more lubricating

IME Honda rubber parts are of poor quality. He did the right thing, most wouldn't. If other seals need conditioning due to not being replaced, then so be it...


But many other Hondas have more miles, time or the same year with NO problems so how can it be a Honda has bad parts (or poor ones) if the problem is NOT in EVERY Honda?

Not a Honda system wide problem IMO. It IS something that either the batch of parts that Buster's engine was built in (which I sorta doubt since they build a TON of Honda's) or something to how Buster's use, climate, oils or such have after only 7 years and 154k miles caused the seals to fail.

If 7 year old Honda engines were requiring $1,000+ in seals we would have heard about it loud and clear.

Take care, Bill



Good point. But it is prudent for him to use HM oils given what he has experienced with his particular car.

 

[Bill in Utah]

Originally Posted By: RedCorvette


Good point. But it is prudent for him to use HM oils given what he has experienced with his particular car.


Not if he has fixed all the concerns. I seriously doubt starting (or really running HM oils) from 154,000 miles on is going to prevent/fix/cure problems that have had 7 years/154,000 miles to become/start.

Take care, Bill

 

[fdcg27]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: RedCorvette
The reasoning for using HM oil that makes sense is that the old seals wore out quite quickly.

Perhaps his rubber needs more lubricating

IME Honda rubber parts are of poor quality. He did the right thing, most wouldn't. If other seals need conditioning due to not being replaced, then so be it...


Honda elastomeric parts are of poor quality and will fail and leak badly at fairly low ages and mileages, while BMW elastomeric parts are exceptional, and will last virtually forever.
This would explain the lack of oil leaks and consumption in my two Hondas, as well as the evident oil leaks and oil consumption of my BMW.