Switched from Mobil 1 to Havoline

[Raxen]

I’ve been reading with great interest the continued discussions here about Havoline. I thought I would chime in with some personal observations. My daily driver is a 1990 Toyota Pickup with the venerable 22R engine. Other than one brief AutoRX cycle with dino, it’s seen nothing but Mobil 1 10w30 since having 22K miles on the clock. The truck has 106K miles on it now.

In the interest of saving some money on my 4-5K change intervals, I thought I would give Havoline a try. The 22R, while very durable, is not known for its quiet operation. However, since switching from the Mobil 1, the engine runs noticeably quieter. Valve tapping was very noticeable from inside the cab with the Mobil 1. It’s barely perceptible with the Havoline. Also, I’ve had this persistent issue with pinging in cold weather for the first few miles of operation. It’s been happening for several years now. Once the engine warms, the pinging eventually goes away. Oddly, the pinging has stopped since the Havoline change about 500 miles ago. I have no idea why, but it’s happening. Anyone have a plausible explanation?

Mobil 1 has served me well and I’m still a big fan (use it my Sienna minivan), but I’ve got to say that I’m pretty impressed with Havoline. Nothing scientific here. Just thought I would share impressions thus far.

 

[wiswind]

Kinda funny, I just put Havoline in last night to do my ARX treatment. I have been using Mobil 1 for the past 120K + miles. Looking inside the oil add point, I can see several of the lifters (mine is a FORD 3.8L with push rod lifters) and I could see no sludge at all.....feeling as far as I can on the inside of the valve cover.....no dirt.

I chose the Havoline based upon what I read here.
However, neither one of us can complain about the service that we have gotten from the Mobil 1 either. My engine made a little bit of a tapping sound with the Mobil 1, but then, they say that it is on the light side of the 30 spec for the 5W-30 rating.

 

[Colt]

Why are you changing Mobil 1 at 4-5K miles?
I go 7-8000 miles on Mobil 1 and could easily go 10K miles on my '05 Corolla and '05 Explorer.
Going 8-10K would save you $$$.

 

[michaelc80]

If you decide to keep the 4-5K mile intervals the Havoline would be an excellent product. Although from what I understand you could use cooking oil and still never have a problem with that engine (grin).

However I agree with Colt, if you decide that you want to return to a synthetic product consider extending those drains a bit-backed up by a UAO-unless that's just too uncomfortable for you.

 

[integrare]

I also have a 1994 Toy P/U with a 22re and my truck runs a lot smoother and quieter on GC or M1 T&S. I haven't tried the Havoline yet because I reluctant to go back to dino. Maybe I'll give it a shot next winter.

 

[buster]

Havoline is great oil, but for extended drains and high performance cars, i'd use M1 over it anyday. Keep the engine cleaner and less deposits. I use M1 0w-20 and the engine is extremely smooth.

 

[wavinwayne]

Echo buster's remarks; Especially, in any high-performance and/or turbo-charged engine (like my VW 1.8T), M1 is definitely the way to go.

In the vast majority of daily drivers, however, Havoline dino will be all that's ever needed.

 

[Hirev]

Chevron/Havoline is a very good oil from my experience.

Interesting comment about Mobil 1 and pinging. I have a 91 Yota with a V6 that I was running Mobil T&S in before my last oil change.

It also developed a very slight pinning problem with the T&S. I put some Chevron 5w 30 in at the last oil change in December and the problem immediately stopped. I did a post on it in the last couped week on here. I also found in a search another guy stated Mobil 1 made his truck ping.

What is strange, is I have owned the Yota for 15 years and about 50 % to 60 % of the time I've owned it. It has had Mobil 1 in it and never had that problem until recently. Starting to wonder what changed in the formula that may have caused this.

 

[Curious Kid]

oops!

 

[oilboy123]

Oil causing a pinging problem..........wierd.

 

[youngbuck]

My Toyota Tacoma's V6 was pretty quiet with M1 5w30. Nothin to complain about. During an Auto-RX rinse I used Pennzoil and I did notice that it ran a little smoother and quiet. Just barely though.

Is it in any way bad if your engine is louder with a certain oil than it is with another?

 

[GoldenRod]

Raxen,

I stand behind your decision 4 square.

 

[martyi]

I've heard several instances of motors "pinging" with M1 but I doubt the trouble is with the oil. Maybe there is a problem synthetic oil is bringing to your attention somehow. Havoline has lots and lots of moly; M1 has very little in comparison. That also could be the answer.

 

[user00000]

quote:

---

Havoline is great oil, but for extended drains and high performance cars, i'd use M1 over it anyday.

---

Please define extended drain. Is it considered extended when compared to old school, 3K mile OCIs or when the mileage is greater than that recommended by a OLM?

Aside: I find that the entertainment value of BITOG is immeasurable but I always leave feeling more confused than when I came. It feels like a brain drain! In large part, this is due to 'expert' opinions that seem to oppose each other on practically every topic under discussion.

 

[farrarfan1]

user00000 keep in mind that there are very few "experts" posting here. Most of what you will get is opinion or repeats of what that poster read or heard somewhere. After awhile you will determine who knows what they are talking about and who doesn't.

 

[glennc]

There have been many reports here of more noise when using Mobil 1, and of less noise when using Havoline, whether in comparison to each other or in comparison to other oils.

I am just not sure whether it matters, or not. I'd like to think that engine noise is an indicator of how happy an engine is - it makes sense to me - but M1 gives great UOAs. It would be interesting to see somebody switch between two oils, note a large difference in noise, and do UOAs on both that are not compromised by any other factor. I haven't seen anything like that. For me, an engine that runs quietly is a pleasure in itself, it makes me feel better about its health and longevity, and I suspect that there might be some wear correlation to go along with that - although I don't have actual evidence of it.

As to the cause of the noise and the pinging, I do have a speculation. One advantage of synthetic is that it flows more easily. In addition M1 oils tend to be on the thin side for their grades, amplifying this quality. Because of this, parts in use will likely be coated with a thinner film. This film will be strong, and capable of protecting the parts, but the momentary accelerations when a load is placed between two parts may be higher, causing shock waves through the metals, which becomes noise on the outside of the engine.

As for the detonation, the detonation itself is caused when a part of the charge spontaneously combusts inside the chamber, ahead of the existing flame front. If I understand it correctly, this creates a radical increase in combustion pressures that breaks through the boundary layer (a layer of non-combusting mixture a few molecules thick lining the chamber). The boundary layer, and not the oil, is what protects the metal engine surfaces from direct combustion heat, which would otherwise melt all the metals. This shock wave, converging on a point at the cylinder wall, or piston, or whevever, when it hits, acts very much like a hammer or some other hard object and just whacks the metal. It is the same thing: molecules being forced against the metal with high momentary pressure, and in this case very high temperatures. If there is a thicker layer of protective oil, and the detonation is at the threshold of noticeability, I can see how the thickness of the oil layer might make a difference.

They say a little detonation isn't really anything to worry about, and I believe it, but I always see it as a sign of difficulty inside the engine and try to get rid of it. Causes might be combustion chamber deposits, air leaks in the PCV system, ignition timing off, or low octane fuel.

- Glenn

 

[Raxen]

As far as the interval is concerned, you're absolutely right, Colt and Michaelc80, that I could probably go longer on the Mobil 1 and get equal bang for my buck. This truck has a carb, however (I think this is the last year they came equipped this way), and I always felt like I should use shorter OCIs since I was concerned about fuel dilution. I know oil takes on the smell of fuel after a while, but it is especially strong smelling on this truck after a couple thousand miles or so, and I do a lot of short trip driving in colder weather. All of this, and the cost advantages of dino on a shorter change interval, weighed into my decision to change back to dino on this vehicle. Believe me, as somewhat of a synthetic fanatic over the years (M1 in the engine and Redline in the gearbox and differential), this decision was a hard one for me, especially since the Mobil 1 has kept this engine very healthy and totally spotless inside.

It's interesting to me, Hirev, that you've had similar issues with pinging and Mobil 1, as have a few others apparently. I would have never attributed a potential cause to an oil, but Glennc's hypothesis makes sense to me as a possible explanation. I've tried for a long time to pin down the cause on this truck to no avail and suddenly it stops with a change in oil. Go figure. Martyi, there's validity to your suggestion that the synthetic may be amplifying another running condition with this engine. For now, however, problem solved. I'll continue the Havoline regimen for a while and see how it goes.

 

[Colt]

Raxen,I'm a oil change fanatic in one of my vehiles,the'05 Explorer.
I do around 6K miles a year and change the Mobil 1 and Wix filter twice a year.
Also about to change the trans and transfer case over to synthetic

 

[Triple_Se7en]

Quote:
farrafan1.... i agree with you 100% their are VERY FEW experts on this site. You must take everything you read with a grain of salt. Their is one on here that trys to come off as an expert, yet he said he never heard of lubrizol or motiva ....... some expert indeed.

lyco5555

That lubrizol/motiva poster is me. I remember questioning the brands a month or-so ago.

I have written many times on this forum that I am only a backyard mechanic with an interest in this forum-site.

I've also written many times that I am no oil guru.

If you have a problem with my posts, use the "scroll over" bar on the right or perhaps use a feature here that doesn't show my posts to you.

I apologize to all others here for reading this.

 

[VTEC01EX]

I switched my Civic over from Mobil 1 to Havoline last week. I just didn't see the point in continuing to blow $5 a quart on the M1 when the Hav at less than $2 a quart would work as well. My engine's usual sewing-machine like ticking seems to be slightly reduced as well.