Steve, do you have that link? I've not been able to find any "scientific" oil filter efficiency testing.
Supertech, Mobil 1, PureOne
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I would love to see some facts to back up different filters too.
I stopped today and looked at these filters in person. The M1 and K&N filters are very heavy compared to the PureOne, the seals are wider, and the inter-tubes had more holes which i don't know if that means anything other than i thought there would be a more even use of the filter.
People keep bringing up price. $5 or $10 I don't see that as much when you are only talking a few times a year for the protection of your vehicle.
Did I hear that some of the M1 or K&N filter have had the media rip?
I stopped today and looked at these filters in person. The M1 and K&N filters are very heavy compared to the PureOne, the seals are wider, and the inter-tubes had more holes which i don't know if that means anything other than i thought there would be a more even use of the filter.
People keep bringing up price. $5 or $10 I don't see that as much when you are only talking a few times a year for the protection of your vehicle.
Did I hear that some of the M1 or K&N filter have had the media rip?
[/quote] I know Champion makes the Supertech, K&N, and Mobil 1 filters. As far as i know the Mobil 1 and K&N are the same filter in a different color. Is there a difference in the Supertech between the other two? [/quote]
Well as someone said just because it is the same manufacturer does not mean it is the same filter at all. Champ, Purolator, and Wix make their own label and some of the filters they make for other labels are the same as their own and some are made to spec for the whoever is contracting it. The Super Tech is an Ecore filter construction same as the Champion brand Ecore and most of, if not all the STPs are Ecores. The Mobil 1 and K&N are a different construction all together from the Ecore. Do they use the same media?? I don't know, probably not. I know the K&N motorsports series does not look the same as the auto series upon disection and their web site not only shows that but shows a different ADBV. So any assumption that is based on the theory it is made by the same manufacturer and is therefore the same is invalid. Contracters can spec the filter however they want and take bids for the build.
Well as someone said just because it is the same manufacturer does not mean it is the same filter at all. Champ, Purolator, and Wix make their own label and some of the filters they make for other labels are the same as their own and some are made to spec for the whoever is contracting it. The Super Tech is an Ecore filter construction same as the Champion brand Ecore and most of, if not all the STPs are Ecores. The Mobil 1 and K&N are a different construction all together from the Ecore. Do they use the same media?? I don't know, probably not. I know the K&N motorsports series does not look the same as the auto series upon disection and their web site not only shows that but shows a different ADBV. So any assumption that is based on the theory it is made by the same manufacturer and is therefore the same is invalid. Contracters can spec the filter however they want and take bids for the build.
The SuperTech filter for my vehicle is NOT the Ecore.
Originally Posted By: iunderpressure
The SuperTech filter for my vehicle is NOT the Ecore.
Interesting, what application? I happened to be at Walmart last night getting some wiper blades and poked my head in the oil isle (like I usually do). Every Supper Tech I saw had the Ecore picture on the side of the box. I know the AC Delco PF52 match has been Ecore for years. Don't remember the last time I saw a ST filter that was not an Ecore.
Also noticed M1 oils are up to $26 for the 5 Qt. jug.
The SuperTech filter for my vehicle is NOT the Ecore.
Interesting, what application? I happened to be at Walmart last night getting some wiper blades and poked my head in the oil isle (like I usually do). Every Supper Tech I saw had the Ecore picture on the side of the box. I know the AC Delco PF52 match has been Ecore for years. Don't remember the last time I saw a ST filter that was not an Ecore.
Also noticed M1 oils are up to $26 for the 5 Qt. jug.
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Ecores shouldn't be under 3" in diameter. Unless they threw in a new line ..they just can't do it.
I'm not sure the part number off the top of my head, but it's a small filter for a 07 Honda Accord.
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They may have finally added a new line. I found it funny myself. Anything 2.9 and under just can't work on the Ecore machinery (at the time of its entrance).
Where do WIX filters fall into all of this compared to M1 and PureOne? Do they use a cotton media? Makes me think of K&N air filters and would let dirt by.
The 3593A is for many honda vehicles and is not an Ecore. It seems to be of pretty fair construction.
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Originally Posted By: iunderpressure
Where do WIX filters fall into all of this compared to M1 and PureOne? Do they use a cotton media? Makes me think of K&N air filters and would let dirt by.
Wix are of top notch construction. They tend to conform to OEM spec's where those spec's make a difference.
I don't know the composition of the cellulose media, but cotton doesn't come to mind. I think you're referring to the gauze air filters that K&N markets.
Now there are cotton wound filters that are used widely in fluid filtration ..
Where do WIX filters fall into all of this compared to M1 and PureOne? Do they use a cotton media? Makes me think of K&N air filters and would let dirt by.
Wix are of top notch construction. They tend to conform to OEM spec's where those spec's make a difference.
I don't know the composition of the cellulose media, but cotton doesn't come to mind. I think you're referring to the gauze air filters that K&N markets.
Now there are cotton wound filters that are used widely in fluid filtration ..
Over the last two days, I went out and bought a M1, PureOne, SuperTech, and WIX filter. Upon cutting them all open I noticed somethings.
The PureOne's Media was the most uneven and was different shades of color like it had oil spots or something on it. Had the thinnest silicone anti-drainback valve, but it stayed very soft even after I stuck it in the freezer.
The M1 and SuperTech were of the same contruction except the medias and anti-drainback valves. The M1's media was twice as thick and was synthetic. The M1's ADBV was silicone stayed soft in the freezer and form a pretty tight seal over the inlet holes. I was very impressed with the SuperTech. It had as much media as the M1 and was just as evenly spaced. If I was not going for long OCI's I would not have a problem using the SuperTech.
The WIX's media was close to the size of the M1's media thickness and just a hair shorter do to their different bypass valve design. The media looked kinda like the PureOne in it had different shades of media some being pretty dark. The media looked like it had two stings wrapped around it during manufacture. The media wasn't damaged it just had two lighter lines where it looked like something was wrapped. The media also had very very thin strans of excess glue almost like a spider web around the media.
Out of all these The media in the Wix was very close to the case of the filter making me think it may slow flow. I like the idea of having the bypass before the media like on the wix, but again everything there is so close it looked like if oil is coming in the inlet holes of the filter the ADBV may block the bypass valves holes. That is where I need help. I'm not sure how much flow is really needed while an engine is running because the space is very close.
Are bypass valves really ever used or are they more of an emergency thing? I know the general answers of if the filter clogs or if it is cold the bypass may be used. How common do filters clog and how cold does it have to be to stop oil in your filter?
I really liked the M1. The media is very clean and even. It didn't look half dirty like the others. The only thing is if the bypass valve is used a lot I can see Wix's point of having it before the media.
The PureOne's Media was the most uneven and was different shades of color like it had oil spots or something on it. Had the thinnest silicone anti-drainback valve, but it stayed very soft even after I stuck it in the freezer.
The M1 and SuperTech were of the same contruction except the medias and anti-drainback valves. The M1's media was twice as thick and was synthetic. The M1's ADBV was silicone stayed soft in the freezer and form a pretty tight seal over the inlet holes. I was very impressed with the SuperTech. It had as much media as the M1 and was just as evenly spaced. If I was not going for long OCI's I would not have a problem using the SuperTech.
The WIX's media was close to the size of the M1's media thickness and just a hair shorter do to their different bypass valve design. The media looked kinda like the PureOne in it had different shades of media some being pretty dark. The media looked like it had two stings wrapped around it during manufacture. The media wasn't damaged it just had two lighter lines where it looked like something was wrapped. The media also had very very thin strans of excess glue almost like a spider web around the media.
Out of all these The media in the Wix was very close to the case of the filter making me think it may slow flow. I like the idea of having the bypass before the media like on the wix, but again everything there is so close it looked like if oil is coming in the inlet holes of the filter the ADBV may block the bypass valves holes. That is where I need help. I'm not sure how much flow is really needed while an engine is running because the space is very close.
Are bypass valves really ever used or are they more of an emergency thing? I know the general answers of if the filter clogs or if it is cold the bypass may be used. How common do filters clog and how cold does it have to be to stop oil in your filter?
I really liked the M1. The media is very clean and even. It didn't look half dirty like the others. The only thing is if the bypass valve is used a lot I can see Wix's point of having it before the media.
I also checked about using a s2000 filter on other Hondas, but their bypass valve pressure is lower. I don't want anything going out the bypass, so it's out of the question.
I also called and talked to a tech guy at Champion filter and he told me the K&N and M1 are the same filter.
Another thing I did like about the Wix was it had clean threads where the others had metal shavings in the threads.
I also called and talked to a tech guy at Champion filter and he told me the K&N and M1 are the same filter.
Another thing I did like about the Wix was it had clean threads where the others had metal shavings in the threads.
The bypass opens everytime the pressure differential is exceeded.
Just bought the supertech 7317 for dissection: It is NOT an Ecore type.
I did notice that it, along with its M1 sister has significantly less filter material (smaller cartrige) than the equivalent purolator and fram TG filters (all 7317 models).
It appears that the M1-104 (3593a) version has greater capacity vs. the M1-110 (7317) with respect to the amount of filter media. The M1's also seem to use a higher bypass pressure setting, fwiw.
Interestingly, when comparing the equivalent Purolator filters, they have virtually identical filter area. (14459 vs 14610)
I did notice that it, along with its M1 sister has significantly less filter material (smaller cartrige) than the equivalent purolator and fram TG filters (all 7317 models).
It appears that the M1-104 (3593a) version has greater capacity vs. the M1-110 (7317) with respect to the amount of filter media. The M1's also seem to use a higher bypass pressure setting, fwiw.
Interestingly, when comparing the equivalent Purolator filters, they have virtually identical filter area. (14459 vs 14610)
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Originally Posted By: iunderpressure
Over the last two days, I went out and bought a M1, PureOne, SuperTech, and WIX filter. Upon cutting them all open I noticed somethings....
iunderpressure, what filter No. did you compare in your post above?
Over the last two days, I went out and bought a M1, PureOne, SuperTech, and WIX filter. Upon cutting them all open I noticed somethings....
iunderpressure, what filter No. did you compare in your post above?
The M1-110, ST 7317, Wix 51356, and the PureOne for the Honda S2000, forgot the part number (it's the shorter fatter one vs the others).
How can you tell an e-core? Is the black plastic media "cage" (vs. a perforated metal core) the tip-off?
Yes.
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