Subies, the engines again...

[Rust_Belt_Pete]

Black ice and snow doesn't care which weels are pinning it cares about the friction coefficent.
Any one who lived in the snow belt knows that being able to stop on time is much more important than AWD.

 

[Andrew1972]

 

[CKN]

Originally Posted By: Rust_Belt_Pete
Black ice and snow doesn't care which weels are pinning it cares about the friction coefficent.
Any one who lived in the snow belt knows that being able to stop on time is much more important than AWD.


Yep-NOBODY should buy a Subaru because they plow through snow better than many other vehicles. But they don't stop better on black ice.

Your point makes about as much sense as having over 100 quarts of oil in your garage.

 

[dblshock]

Subie has good concepts but good god what an execution mess, I just bought winter tires for my Highlander, will hope for the best.

 

[JohnnyMerrill]

They aren't perfect but they are great in winter conditions

 

[fdcg27]

I've never seen an OM that didn't direct the driver to check the oil at every fill-up.
Most of the cars that we've owned have consumed little enough oil that adds would never be required, but regularly checking the oil level is a good habit that allows one to avoid the expensive embarrassment of running an engine out of oil.
Maybe Buffy and Biffy should have read the OM that came with their Subarus and paid heed to it?
We've had three 'roos and have two now.
There is nothing better than an AWD 'roo in bad conditions and there is no better AWD system available for either performance or durability.
The flat engines are a bit quirky and fuel economy isn't great as compared to comparable FWD cars, but Subarus are very much an acquired taste, like good Port and Cubans or single malt Scotch whiskey with the same.
Too bad that the same kind of folks who ruined BMW and Mercedes have now become Subaru buyers.

 

[rationull]

+1

Various engines from various manufacturers do have problems with trends of oil burning but any engine from any manufacturer CAN burn oil. Failure to check oil levels is a pretty weak excuse, especially if the engine isn't burning more than a quart in 1-2k miles.

Obviously it still sucks, especially in a new car.

 

[emg]

Originally Posted By: rationull
Various engines from various manufacturers do have problems with trends of oil burning but any engine from any manufacturer CAN burn oil. Failure to check oil levels is a pretty weak excuse, especially if the engine isn't burning more than a quart in 1-2k miles.


While our 2015 Forester hasn't burned a drop since we bought it, there's no denying that the FB20 and FB25 have had real problems; even Subaru have admitted that, and made changes to try to fix it. There's still a problem with some of them, though it seems to almost exclusively affect manuals now, with very few 2015/2016 CVT owners reporting high oil consumption.

The interesting part is that it only seems to affect North American cars; I haven't seen anyone in the EU or Asia reporting similar issues. That does tend to imply that the low viscosity oil forced on us by the CAFE madness is likely to be a large part of the problem.

And, all that said, in the recent numbers released from a magazine reader survey (I think it was Consumer Reports, but not certain), the worst Subaru oil-burner seemed to be the good old 3.6 flat six. I don't believe that engine has been significantly changed in years?

 

[IveBeenRued]

My family has four 2012+ Subarus with FB-Series engines and none of them consume oil over their 7.5-12K OCIs.

 

[Andrew1972]

Originally Posted By: dblshock
Subie has good concepts but good god what an execution mess, I just bought winter tires for my Highlander, will hope for the best.


Agreed, the Highlander AWD is absolutely joke as at best its FWD+ and can kick 10% of torque as needed(too late) to a rear tire that it hopes has traction. AWD Toyota Sienna/Highlanders maybe until recent generations were a joke.

That is why Subaru continued to sell well in wintery places because the price point is relatively low for an incredibly capable/simple full time AWD vehicle. Take away AWD and Subaru mainstream products IMHO are not worth looking at. My family(old New England Yankees) has had Subaru 4wd>AWD since I was born and into 200k range/12 years lifespans.....

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: FL_Rob
My 95 legacy wagon has had one cam seal go out,one clutch cable and one wheel bearing that got loud enough to warrant replacing.No HG problems or leaks and it doesn't burn oil between OC's.

20 years old ,plus!.. it was a northern vehicle.My VIN indicates built in Japan,maybe there is a correlation-import VS. domestic quality?


The EJ22 in your car is one of most desirable Subaru engines, it has dual port heads which were only used till and including 96.
I have a 96 Legacy sedan for winter, its also a northern vehicle. No rust and no HG problems, it has the EJ22 which is one of the best engine Subaru ever built.
It uses a closed deck and is non interference, the ej22T is IIRC was only closed deck turbo engine offered in the US, both were bulletproof. An EJ22T is an engine worth building and worth a few bucks.

The open deck engines like the EJ25 are generally the ones that have the HG issues. Anyone notice that since they went to xw20 there have been more oil related problems with the engines.

 

[Ramblejam]

Originally Posted By: Trav
Anyone notice that since they went to xw20 there have been more oil related problems with the engines.

 

[Nate1979]

Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: FL_Rob
My 95 legacy wagon has had one cam seal go out,one clutch cable and one wheel bearing that got loud enough to warrant replacing.No HG problems or leaks and it doesn't burn oil between OC's.

20 years old ,plus!.. it was a northern vehicle.My VIN indicates built in Japan,maybe there is a correlation-import VS. domestic quality?


The EJ22 in your car is one of most desirable Subaru engines, it has dual port heads which were only used till and including 96.
I have a 96 Legacy sedan for winter, its also a northern vehicle. No rust and no HG problems, it has the EJ22 which is one of the best engine Subaru ever built.
It uses a closed deck and is non interference, the ej22T is IIRC was only closed deck turbo engine offered in the US, both were bulletproof. An EJ22T is an engine worth building and worth a few bucks.

The open deck engines like the EJ25 are generally the ones that have the HG issues. Anyone notice that since they went to xw20 there have been more oil related problems with the engines.


To be fair they did a complete engine redesign and went to xw20 at the same time. People have tried heavier weights and they still consume (when tried after the fact).

 

[Trav]

I don't know of any horizontal engine that performs well on thin oils, they all seem to prefer thicker, air or water cooled doesn't matter.
Once its huffing oil going thicker after the fact usually doesn't help it, that horse is out of the barn and run away.

 

[dblshock]

Problem is when they're blow'n motor oil new what's it like at 150,000?

 

[97tbird]

I am still drawn towards an Impreza hatch/half-wagon from 2003-2006 or so, as our next "spare" / beater vehicle when the Elantra is out of commission someday...but the HG stories have scared me a bit...I wonder what the chances are of finding one from that era with the HG already replaced / fixed...

So what are the Subaru years that were PRIOR to HG problems starting? should I skip the whole HG era and start looking for a model year that was BEFORE the HG problems started? (a model year AFTER HG problems were fixed would not be in beater-price bracket in my case - so it's either HG era or a low-mile PRE HG era...)

OMG Cream puff:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Subaru-Legacy-Ou...em=191711456366

 

[JTK]

Originally Posted By: Trav
...The open deck engines like the EJ25 are generally the ones that have the HG issues. Anyone notice that since they went to xw20 there have been more oil related problems with the engines.


Consumption slowed by just using regular 5w20 in my 2014 Subaru FB20. At some point, I may go with 5w30 in it. I've used 5w30 as top-up oil in it. Like the older EJs, you could probably run 15w40 in them and they wouldn't skip a beat.

 

[FutureDoc]

Originally Posted By: 97tbird
So what are the Subaru years that were PRIOR to HG problems starting? should I skip the whole HG era and start looking for a model year that was BEFORE the HG problems started? (a model year AFTER HG problems were fixed would not be in beater-price bracket in my case - so it's either HG era or a low-mile PRE HG era...)

OMG Cream puff:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Subaru-Legacy-Ou...em=191711456366


I have that "creampuff" but mine has 210k and better leather.

Any vehicle from 1996-1999 has internal HG "issues" but it affect maybe 1 in 7 or 1 in 9 vehicles. From 2000-2004, they have external HG issues (supplier falsifying the spec) and are much more common. 2005 to 2009 it becomes less of an issue. However, any 2.5 with a HG issue that was fixed correctly, it will never be an issue again.

If you want to avoid the HG issue, just get the flat-six engines.

 

[Trav]

The 96 EJ22 has a closed deck and no HG issues associated with the open deck failures.

 

[Andrew1972]

Originally Posted By: Trav
The 96 EJ22 has a closed deck and no HG issues associated with the open deck failures.


Is the 2.5 EJ255 (turbo engine) closed deck? It does not seem to suffer any significant head gasket issues unless the owner abuses it by overheating it.