Subaru Honeywell vs FRAM Orange Can of Death

[edhackett]

I introduced a new Subaru Honeywell built filter and a FRAM PH9715 to the band saw here at work. Sorry, there are no pictures. I don't do digital, and there are plenty out there already.

Sigh... It's as we feared. The Subaru filter is a "Blue Can of Death". The filter element is exactly the same. Same size, number of pleats, color, texture, and the same red stripe on the cardboard end caps. The ADBV is identical, as is the base plate.

The bypass spring is stronger in the Subaru filter to meet Subaru's spec of 23.3 psi. Pressing on the valve with a pen required ~4 lbs to begin movement on the FRAM, ~6 lbs for the Subaru filter. This puts a hole in the theory of the by-pass being set to protect the filter, as the element is the same, Subaru specifying nearly twice the bypass pressure of the FRAM.

The only other physical difference is that the gasket has a round sealing surface on the Subaru filter. It's not an O-ring as the Tokyo Roki, but a molded gasket that is the same as the FRAM on the bottom, but is thinner and round on the outside, top circumference.

Ed

 

[dishdude]

I would hope that Subaru tests to make sure they meet there specifications. Maybe the orange can of death isn't that bad...although I still would never use one.

 

[SuperBusa]

Originally Posted By: edhackett
The bypass spring is stronger in the Subaru filter to meet Subaru's spec of 23.3 psi. Pressing on the valve with a pen required ~4 lbs to begin movement on the FRAM, ~6 lbs for the Subaru filter. This puts a hole in the theory of the by-pass being set to protect the filter, as the element is the same, Subaru specifying nearly twice the bypass pressure of the FRAM.


You don't know for sure if FRAM has tested (or Subaru as dishdude mentioned) to make sure the filter element can take that high of a bypass setting. I would certainly think so ... if not, they (FRAM & Subaru) could be wide open for major catastrophes, which I doubt they would put themselves into.

 

[Johnny]

One is blue and one is orange and neither is a can of death.

 

[RGrant]

Originally Posted By: Johnny
One is blue and one is orange and neither is a can of death.


AMEN.... There are millions of vehicles on the road at this very instant who are using Fram filters. They work JUST FINE.

 

[Boomer]

JUst fine...til the paper end caps fail like one did for me years ago. Filter apparently just dissolved and I found paper all through the top end and, presumably, the bottom end. Lots drained out with the oil. SOme probably got caught in the next (non-Fram) filter. The rest probably was lodged throughout the engine.

No thnaks, folks. Once is enough. Why take a risk when there are much better constructed filters.

 

[edhackett]

I agree, Johnny. "Can of Death" is really not called for. It's a matter of value. There are better filters at the same or less cost than the FRAM. The price of the FRAM in Subaru trim will get you the best filters available.

Ed

 

[rationull]

From the physical description sounds like the Subaru OEM Honeywell filter might be close to or the same as the Honda OEM Honeywell filter.

I thought I remembered reading somewhere that Subaru (like Honda) was spec'ing filter changes every other oil change, too. Coincidences?

 

[edhackett]

Subaru still calls for a filter change at every oil change.

The seal design of the new Subaru filter bothers me. The inside circumference of the seal is not supported. The seal is free to expand inward instead of generating sealing pressure.

Ed

 

[aaxb970]

I believe Honeywell owns Fram so I would think the filters would all be very similar.

 

[oldmaninsc]

Originally Posted By: Boomer
JUst fine...til the paper end caps fail like one did for me years ago. Filter apparently just dissolved and I found paper all through the top end and, presumably, the bottom end. Lots drained out with the oil. SOme probably got caught in the next (non-Fram) filter. The rest probably was lodged throughout the engine.

No thnaks, folks. Once is enough. Why take a risk when there are much better constructed filters.

I understand where you are coming from, but do you think Fram is the only filter that has had those types of problems?

Like Johnny and others mentioned, many of us have used Fram filters for many hundreds of thousands of miles.
I agree though - for the price there are better ones out there.

 

[IntegraVT]

They are close, but the Honeywell OEM Honda filters have a silicone ADBV.

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
This puts a hole in the theory of the by-pass being set to protect the filter, as the element is the same, Subaru specifying nearly twice the bypass pressure of the FRAM.


No. I means in the case of this/these filters that the apparent likeness of the media can withstand the extended pressure. Try tearing apart a VW/AUDI filter from just about any manufacturer ..with a 30lb bypass valve and you'll most likely find mesh reinforced media.

The Honeywell media may be like a sieve in comparison.

 

[aaxb970]

I never had any problems with Fram always worked for me.

 

[rationull]

Originally Posted By: IntegraVT
They are close, but the Honeywell OEM Honda filters have a silicone ADBV.


Ah, right. I didn't see the bit in the original post about the ADBV being the same between the Subaru and the Fram filters.

 

[edhackett]

True about the media, Gary. With only a 96% single and 94% multi pass efficiency at 20 microns, it's not cutting edge filtration.

Ed

 

[rationull]

Originally Posted By: edhackett
Subaru still calls for a filter change at every oil change.


Thanks for the correction. I must've been thinking of something else -- I could've sworn I've read on here about another manufacturer spec'ing every other OCI filter changes.

 

[SuperBusa]

Originally Posted By: Boomer
JUst fine...til the paper end caps fail like one did for me years ago. Filter apparently just dissolved and I found paper all through the top end and, presumably, the bottom end. Lots drained out with the oil. SOme probably got caught in the next (non-Fram) filter. The rest probably was lodged throughout the engine.


Debris could have (and still might be) on the oil pump's pickup screen. This is potentially dangerous, as covering the pickup screen much at all will cause the oil pump to starve and not produce it's full output flow.

Did you remove the oil pan to check? If you have an oil pressure gauge, you could tell if the screen was clogged by a reduction in oil pressure.

 

[Newtonville]

There may be cheaply made fakes of Frams out there. Everything these days can be a fake, right down to the printing and box. A genuine cheaply made Fram shouldn't fall apart. They do cut costs(the real Fram folks) but they do know what they are doing and have been making the endcaps for years. The endcaps shouldn't dissolve any more than the media, if genuine cheaply made Fram.

Subaru used to use Union Sangyo I believe like Nissan. Also called Nippon, NPN, and easily available. They are well made filters.

 

[Gary Allan]

We've seen very few Fram failures. They weren't failures, per se~, but things like the ADBV partially collapsing the end cap (there were images) ..but at no higher incidence than we've seen defects in various other filters (including WIX, Baldwin, etc.). Baldwins, for a lot or two, had shorter center tubes that got through.

Frams tend to have the nitrile parts fatigue in the 3k-5k range, but that's not necessarily a defect. The same can happen to any nitrile part. Your engine will probably determine if it makes a difference. If your last car made noise with a Fram ..and your new one doesn't with a ST, then your new (different) one wouldn't with a Fram either.