Subaru 15208AA160 and Mazda N3R1-14-302 cut open and compared

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Subaru uses a 23psi bypass. I spend $4ea for Subaru blue cans and don't see what the problem is, Subaru is willing to warranty the engine with them and fiber end caps are no big deal. I do like the Wix/Napa Gold filters also 23psi bypass and a much nicer ADBV it is not just silicone but it is larger and flatter with reinforcements on the back side, it seems to be a good solid filter for $6.
 
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While to two black can filters do appear very similar, unless one knows the efficiency specs of both can't say that they are identical OFs. That even if the bypass spec on both is the same. Being OEM, highly unlikely efficiency spec of either or both can be found.

As for the Suby OEM made by Fram, I'm sure it works as intended and warranted by Subaru and can be used with confidence.

That said, it is perfectly fine to have a preference for a construction type in a spin on filter. I do, and I seek out filters with that type of construction. Fwiw, I rarely if ever run OEM filters in the vehicles I maintain.
 

dwasifar

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Thinking over the comments about needing to know the filtration efficiency and delta-p to be sure they're equivalent.

I guess I would have to amend my conclusion to say that they're equivalent as far as it's possible to determine without proprietary data. But this conclusion is still at least as useful as any conclusion one can reach about choosing an aftermarket filter, or even choosing the blue Subaru filter over the black one. In the absence of the proprietary information, we have no filtration efficiency data on which to make a comparison, so if we reasonably assume the stock filter is a good choice, our options become a) Buy the stock black filter on the gray market and trust that it's best; b) Buy the Mazda filter and trust that it's the same efficiency because it appears to be; c) Buy the blue filters and trust they are the same or better efficiency; or d) Buy aftermarket filters and hope that you are not unknowingly compromising efficiency compared to any of the previous choices.

All those choices contain guesses. Subaru uses two different filters. They both at least meet Subaru's specs, but one or the other could exceed the specs and filter better. There are eleventy gazillion aftermarket choices, including the Mazda, but we can't know which of them, if any, have better or worse filtration than stock.

So either we do not have enough data to make any choice, or we proceed without that particular data point and make choices based on what we can know. And that leads us away from using any of the three filters I took apart, and toward using aftermarket filters for which efficiency data is published. We still can't know if it's better than stock, but at least we can know what it is for that particular product, and we can choose based on what is generally known about how good a filter can objectively (as opposed to comparatively) be.
 

ZeeOSix

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If filter efficiency is the main important factor, then choose a filter that has published ISO 4548-12 information from the manufacturer that meets your goal.

If construction is the main important factor and efficiency isn't that important, then choose a filter that shows the construction you want/need. Construction also includes reliability during use, meaning it doesn't fail in some way.

If you want both, then you have to blend the efficiency and construction factors to an acceptable combination that you're comfortable with.

From an engineering viewpoint, as long as the construction and build quality doesn't lead to failures, then its construction is acceptable for the job. An oil filter is a throw away item after it does its job.

Purolator PureOne filters were super popular here before the media tearing reports started pouring in. It was advertised as ISO 4548-12 efficiency of 99.9% @ 20μ, had decent construction with metal end caps, and had good flow vs delta-p (which was proved by data from Purolator). And the cost was reasonable. But when the media tearing started, people dropped the PureOne and switched to the Fram Ultra (including me), because it met the desired efficiency, construction and reliability requirements for many. And its cost was also reasonable. Cost is yet another factor for many, but can be justified to some degree by what you get.
 
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dwasifar

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It's a long shot, but I wrote to Tokyo Roki and asked them if they will provide specs for those two filters.
 

ZeeOSix

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It's a long shot, but I wrote to Tokyo Roki and asked them if they will provide specs for those two filters.
Probably is a long shot, but if they respond with actual efficiency and flow data please post it up.
 

dwasifar

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Probably is a long shot, but if they respond with actual efficiency and flow data please post it up.
Well, I did receive an automated reply from their contact form, which is promising:

1649622926294.png


In case anyone here can't read Japanese:

1649623022008.jpg
 

ZeeOSix

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^^^ At least the robots care. 😄

BTW, if they come back with a response that the information is "propitiatory" then that means it's not very good. No company in their right mind will hide performance data that bolsters their products.
 
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dwasifar

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^^^ At least the robots care. 😄

BTW, if they come back with a response that the information is "propitiatory" then that means it's not very good. No company in their right mind will hide performance data that bolsters their products.
Not sure if "propitiatory" is a joke about translation error, or just a slip on your part, and don't want to assume.

But it's possible their contracts with Subaru and Mazda do not allow them to discuss it. Which would make sense, in a way; if Subaru won't tell us, they're not going to leave a loophole open for us to get the data from the supplier.

That's the response I expect, anyway. We'll see.
 

ZeeOSix

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Not sure if "propitiatory" is a joke about translation error, or just a slip on your part, and don't want to assume.
It's not a joke about translation of the robot response or a slip on my part. What I'm saying is that if a company will not tell you what the efficiency specs are, when nearly all other filter companies tell you, then there's a reason for them not divulging the information.

For instance, WIX use to show the efficiency of their full synthetic (top of their line) XP oil filter as 50% @ 20u. Then all of a sudden that efficiency spec disappeared from their website and showed nothing. Then if someone called WIX and asked what the efficiency of their XP filter was, they would just tell you that "it's proprietary". Why do you think they would say that? :unsure: 😄

But it's possible their contracts with Subaru and Mazda do not allow them to discuss it. Which would make sense, in a way; if Subaru won't tell us, they're not going to leave a loophole open for us to get the data from the supplier.

That's the response I expect, anyway. We'll see.
Yes, in this case that could be true, and you would have to contact Subaru and Mazda instead. They may also tell you the information is "proprietary". If they say they don't want to share the information, then it's "proprietary" by the very meaning of the word. Like said, why would any company hide stellar performance specs on anything they sell? Next thing you know, car makers that make weak powered cars will say the torque and HP numbers are "proprietary" because they don't want the public knowing how lame they are, lol.
 

dwasifar

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It's not a joke about translation of the robot response or a slip on my part ... if someone called WIX and asked what the efficiency of their XP filter was, they would just tell you that "it's proprietary". Why do you think they would say that? :unsure: 😄
If they said it was proprietary, then I'd think they were hiding something. But if they said it was propitiatory, which was the word you used that I was commenting on, I would ask them whether it was a joke or a mistake. :)
 

ZeeOSix

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If they said it was proprietary, then I'd think they were hiding something. But if they said it was propitiatory, which was the word you used that I was commenting on, I would ask them whether it was a joke or a mistake. :)
LoL ... autocorrect victim. I guess depeding on the cirucmstances it could also be propitiatory (intended to reconcile or appease). Obviously I meant proprietary since it came out right in post #30.

1649633971828.jpg
 

dwasifar

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LoL ... autocorrect victim. I guess depeding on the cirucmstances it could also be propitiatory (intended to reconcile or appease). Obviously I meant proprietary since it came out right in post #30.

View attachment 95914
Yes, by that point it was obvious you'd always meant proprietary and just had some sort of slip-up that you hadn't noticed. But initially, because you put it in quotes, I didn't know whether it was a slip or a joke about what kind of fractured English reply I might receive.
 

ZeeOSix

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Their robot response wasn't too bad, but it will be interesting what the actual human response might be.
 
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I'll be much more than surprised if TR releases the efficiency data on either or both of the black can OEM OFs. And, in ISO 4548-12 form which is standard of efficiency ratings.

I guess 'shocked' would be an appropriate word for me IF it happened.

Using what data is available on Asian OEM OFs efficiency, which is very limited, I wouldn't expect either of them to be very efficient. And that's being kind.
 
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