Subaru and Wix.

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I have two Subarus that use nominally the same filter, but I'm not sure what to think about what the Wix site has to say. If I go by what the cars were built with, I should be using a different Wix part number than if I go by the current catalog recommendation.

We have an '11 Forester (late-year manufacture, so apparently a '12 engine). Subaru's original filter for this engine appears to have been 15208AA130. Wix crosses that part to 57830. However, Subaru's catalog lookup for this car makes no mention of 15208AA130; it only says 15208AA160 is replaced by 15208AA15A. Wix crosses those two numbers to their 57830 and 57055 respectively. Direct lookup by make/model/year also says 57055.

We also have a '19 Crosstrek. This car came with a 15208AA160 installed (I know because I still have it), but again, Subaru's catalog says 15208AA160 is replaced by 15208AA15A (Wix 57830 and 57055 again) and the Wix make/model/year lookup says 57055.

I know Subaru changed the part number in the US market, the famous blue filter / black filter thing where Japan Subarus get robust Tokyo Roki filters and US Subarus get inferior blue Frams. But if the Tokyo Roki filters and the blue Frams are both installed by Subaru, and each one has a different cross to a Wix number, would it be safe to use either Wix on either engine? They're significantly different in specs; different size, different micron rating, different bypass pressure. The 57055 is 15 microns and 27lb, whereas the 57830 is 35 microns and 22lb. Are those changes related? Do they raise the bypass pressure so that the filter doesn't bypass too soon when trying to push oil through the finer media? Just trying to understand Subaru's changes and how they relate to Wix.

I wonder if there's a way to find out those specs for the OEM filters; I googled for it but didn't find anything.
 
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use the direct YMM lookup.

The 57830 is meant for the BRZ and Toyota clones.

Other Subarus take the 57055, like your Forester. There is also an XP version 57055XP
 

ZeeOSix

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know Subaru changed the part number in the US market, the famous blue filter / black filter thing where Japan Subarus get robust Tokyo Roki filters and US Subarus get inferior blue Frams. But if the Tokyo Roki filters and the blue Frams are both installed by Subaru, and each one has a different cross to a Wix number, would it be safe to use either Wix on either engine?
Are both the black Tokyo Roki and the blue Fram Subaru filters used on the same exact engine?

If they are used on different engines, then they are different for some reason - most likely max oil pump output difference.

They're significantly different in specs; different size, different micron rating, different bypass pressure. The 57055 is 15 microns and 27lb, whereas the 57830 is 35 microns and 22lb. Are those changes related? Do they raise the bypass pressure so that the filter doesn't bypass too soon when trying to push oil through the finer media? Just trying to understand Subaru's changes and how they relate to Wix.
It could be that they raised the filter bypass setting on the filter with higher efficiency if the more efficient media has a higher delta-p vs flow rate. Hard to say for sure, but that could be a factor.

Yes, the bypass valve setting would have to be raised if the delta-p vs flow across the filter is higher so the filter doesn't bypass too early and too often. For example, if one filter has a max expected delta-p at max pump flow of 15 PSI, then they might set the bypass valve to 22 PSI. But if another filter on the same engine has a max expected delta-p of 20 PSI, then they might set the bypass valve to 27 PSI. In that case example either filter could be used because they both give 7 PSI of headroom over the max expected delta-p.
 
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I just use the Subaru blue filter from the dealer, and call it a night. Wix has great filters for the most part, but I keep oil changes to factory recommended intervals, or a bit earlier.

For my 2018 Forester, they say 6000 mile oil and filter changes. I did push one to 8000 miles and sent a sample to Blackstone. They said it looked good, try 10,000 miles next time.

Retired now, so drive little to get it fully warmed up. More $ on hand too, little fuel expense and taking in more $ each month, than I was working. ;)

I might even back down to 4000 mile changes, using synthetic oil. Filters and oil are cheap. Timing chains and engines are expensive.
I can afford excessive oil changes. Plus my local shop gives me a 10% senior citizen discount! Gets me in any day I want, on my time frame. Lets me bring my oil and filter of choice. Like $30 out the door for an oil change. Spent lot's of $ there over the years, so we have a great working relationship. He is FAIR and HONEST! Never whined once about a bill.

I always flip him an extra $20, and say buy some donuts for the guys tomorrow AM. We treat each other right.
 

dwasifar

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Are both the black Tokyo Roki and the blue Fram Subaru filters used on the same exact engine?

If they are used on different engines, then they are different for some reason - most likely max oil pump output difference.

Yes they are. That's what I was trying to get across when posting the Subaru catalog "replaced by" data.

The AA160 is the black Tokyo Roki filter and the AA15A is the blue Fram. The Crosstrek came with the Roki on it and the dealer replaced it with a blue Fram at the first change. The AA130 Roki that was OEM for the Forester was apparently superseded by the AA160 Roki and then by the AA15A Fram in the US. So Subaru has put both the Roki and the Fram filters on both engines.

My understanding is that Subaru Japan uses Roki filters and Subaru USA uses Fram, so when a car is built in Japan it comes with a Roki filter, and at the first dealer oil change it gets replaced with a Fram. That was definitely the case with my Crosstrek.

It could be that they raised the filter bypass setting on the filter with higher efficiency if the more efficient media has a higher delta-p vs flow rate. Hard to say for sure, but that could be a factor.

Yes, the bypass valve setting would have to be raised if the delta-p vs flow across the filter is higher so the filter doesn't bypass too early and too often. For example, if one filter has a max expected delta-p at max pump flow of 15 PSI, then they might set the bypass valve to 22 PSI. But if another filter on the same engine has a max expected delta-p of 20 PSI, then they might set the bypass valve to 27 PSI. In that case example either filter could be used because they both give 7 PSI of headroom over the max expected delta-p.

That's good information. I assume "delta-p" is change in pressure across the media, right? So you're saying basically if the filter's internal resistance to flow results in x amount of pressure inside the can, then higher internal pressure is normal and the bypass valve setting has to be x+something so the valve won't open early. Fits with my guess. Thanks!
 

ZeeOSix

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That's good information. I assume "delta-p" is change in pressure across the media, right?
Yes, delta-p is the differential pressure across the oil filter when oil is flowing through it.

So you're saying basically if the filter's internal resistance to flow results in x amount of pressure inside the can, then higher internal pressure is normal and the bypass valve setting has to be x+something so the valve won't open early. Fits with my guess. Thanks!
Yes, that's right. If you look at 10 different filter brands that are specified for the same engine, the filters may have several different bypass valve settings. The filter bypass setting has a lot to do with the design of the filter itself. If Filter A has less delta-p than Filter B at max oil flow conditions, then the bypass valve can theoretically be set lower if both filters have the same holding capacity.

That brings up holding capacity, which is another factor in the bypass valve setting. A smaller filter with the same media will have more delta-p and less holding capacity than a larger filter with the same media, so the smaller filter will have more delta-p as it loads up due to less holding capacity, and therefore will probably have a higher bypass valve setting to match the filter design and performance.

Manufacturers will typically put the same bypass valve in many different sized filters they make to save complexity and costs, but they ensure that the bypass valve is high enough for the worse case application (the filter with the most expected delta-p). It's OK to have a higher bypass valve in a filter with less delta-p, but it's not good to have a lower bypass valve in a filter with more delta-p because it can cause unwanted bypass events.
 
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I have two Subarus that use nominally the same filter, but I'm not sure what to think about what the Wix site has to say. If I go by what the cars were built with, I should be using a different Wix part number than if I go by the current catalog recommendation.

We have an '11 Forester (late-year manufacture, so apparently a '12 engine). Subaru's original filter for this engine appears to have been 15208AA130. Wix crosses that part to 57830. However, Subaru's catalog lookup for this car makes no mention of 15208AA130; it only says 15208AA160 is replaced by 15208AA15A. Wix crosses those two numbers to their 57830 and 57055 respectively. Direct lookup by make/model/year also says 57055.

We also have a '19 Crosstrek. This car came with a 15208AA160 installed (I know because I still have it), but again, Subaru's catalog says 15208AA160 is replaced by 15208AA15A (Wix 57830 and 57055 again) and the Wix make/model/year lookup says 57055.

I know Subaru changed the part number in the US market, the famous blue filter / black filter thing where Japan Subarus get robust Tokyo Roki filters and US Subarus get inferior blue Frams. But if the Tokyo Roki filters and the blue Frams are both installed by Subaru, and each one has a different cross to a Wix number, would it be safe to use either Wix on either engine? They're significantly different in specs; different size, different micron rating, different bypass pressure. The 57055 is 15 microns and 27lb, whereas the 57830 is 35 microns and 22lb. Are those changes related? Do they raise the bypass pressure so that the filter doesn't bypass too soon when trying to push oil through the finer media? Just trying to understand Subaru's changes and how they relate to Wix.

I wonder if there's a way to find out those specs for the OEM filters; I googled for it but didn't find anything.

Use the Wix 57055, it and the Subaru OEM 15208AA15A filter are considered to be retroactive upgrades on all previous number filters. Best thing to do is to not get caught up in the minutiae regarding whatever Japanese made filter came from the factory on vehicles built in Japan. Unless someone can actually provide me with evidence of a Fram-made Subaru OEM oil filter failure I refuse to buy into this nonsense that it is somehow an inferior product.
 
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Unless someone can actually provide me with evidence of a Fram-made Subaru OEM oil filter failure I refuse to buy into this nonsense that it is somehow an inferior product.

It’s not that it’s an inferior product… it’s that it has shrunk down to the bare minimum acceptable vs a Top Tier spec where they want the BEST.
 
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It’s not that it’s an inferior product… it’s that it has shrunk down to the bare minimum acceptable vs a Top Tier spec where they want the BEST.

What matters is, does it get the job done? There is this cult-like following and even obsession among many people that seem to feel like they MUST have Tokyo Roki filters as if the extra time, effort, and money they have to spend to simply acquire one of these filters is going to make some immense difference. It is literally going to do the exact same thing as the not-prone-to-failure Subaru OEM oil filter made by Fram.

You know what if I was smart, which I am not, I would get in the business of importing Tokyo Roki oil filters and selling them for a healthy profit because I know all sorts of people who would line up in droves and pay whatever price so they can feel better about having one.
 

dwasifar

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What matters is, does it get the job done? There is this cult-like following and even obsession among many people that seem to feel like they MUST have Tokyo Roki filters as if the extra time, effort, and money they have to spend to simply acquire one of these filters is going to make some immense difference. It is literally going to do the exact same thing as the not-prone-to-failure Subaru OEM oil filter made by Fram.

You know what if I was smart, which I am not, I would get in the business of importing Tokyo Roki oil filters and selling them for a healthy profit because I know all sorts of people who would line up in droves and pay whatever price so they can feel better about having one.
You're probably right about all of that. I'm going to stop worrying about it.

Regarding importing Roki from Japan, pretty sure people are doing exactly that on ebay.
 

ZeeOSix

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What matters is, does it get the job done? There is this cult-like following and even obsession among many people that seem to feel like they MUST have Tokyo Roki filters as if the extra time, effort, and money they have to spend to simply acquire one of these filters is going to make some immense difference. It is literally going to do the exact same thing as the not-prone-to-failure Subaru OEM oil filter made by Fram.
I'm betting a lot of the drive for some to try and get the Tokyo Roki filter instead of the Subaru OEM Fram is because of the spread of "Fram hate". But the Fram made Subaru OEM filters are speced and approved by Subaru. Guess they don't trust the Subaru enginners about the Fram made filter - ??
 
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I'm betting a lot of the drive for some to try and get the Tokyo Roki filter instead of the Subaru OEM Fram is because of the spread of "Fram hate". But the Fram made Subaru OEM filters are speced and approved by Subaru. Guess they don't trust the Subaru enginners about the Fram made filter - ??

Oh yes! They hate Fram but they love that bypass spec 🤣
 
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I'm betting a lot of the drive for some to try and get the Tokyo Roki filter instead of the Subaru OEM Fram is because of the spread of "Fram hate". But the Fram made Subaru OEM filters are speced and approved by Subaru. Guess they don't trust the Subaru enginners about the Fram made filter - ??
Fram are notorious for leaky ADBV due to poor baseplate stampings

Maybe they don't trust Subaru engineers. Putting a filter up top that empties during cooldown where you get a dry start every time.

Nothing will fix that I suppose. Not even the insanely beautiful Toyo Roki
 
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Fram are notorious for leaky ADBV due to poor baseplate stampings

Maybe they don't trust Subaru engineers. Putting a filter up top that empties during cooldown where you get a dry start every time.

Nothing will fix that I suppose. Not even the insanely beautiful Toyo Roki
I see there are Toyo Roki now Roki and Tokyo Roki and they do similar things and make black OEM filters but appera to be different companies

Somewhat VERY confusing (toyo) Roki lists as OEM for Mitsubishi Honda and Subaru, others and also established Filtech USA
which is now ROKI AMERICA Co., Ltd.


 
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Fram are notorious for leaky ADBV due to poor baseplate stampings

Maybe they don't trust Subaru engineers. Putting a filter up top that empties during cooldown where you get a dry start every time.

Nothing will fix that I suppose. Not even the insanely beautiful Toyo Roki
I'm thinking the Tokyo Roki ADBVs aren't any better. I just did an oil change on my 2022 Crosstrek at 1000 mi and it had the black Tokyo Roki oil filter on it from the factory. I pulled the oil filter while the hot oil was draining and the filter did not have any oil in it. Fluke thing? 🤷‍♂️ Isn't the purpose of an ADBV to prevent the oil from draining out of the filter?
 

dwasifar

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I'm thinking the Tokyo Roki ADBVs aren't any better. I just did an oil change on my 2022 Crosstrek at 1000 mi and it had the black Tokyo Roki oil filter on it from the factory. I pulled the oil filter while the hot oil was draining and the filter did not have any oil in it. Fluke thing? 🤷‍♂️ Isn't the purpose of an ADBV to prevent the oil from draining out of the filter?
Maybe you got a bad one. Mine retained considerable oil, as do the apparent Mazda equivalent Tokyo Rokis.
 

ZeeOSix

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I'm thinking the Tokyo Roki ADBVs aren't any better. I just did an oil change on my 2022 Crosstrek at 1000 mi and it had the black Tokyo Roki oil filter on it from the factory. I pulled the oil filter while the hot oil was draining and the filter did not have any oil in it. Fluke thing? 🤷‍♂️ Isn't the purpose of an ADBV to prevent the oil from draining out of the filter?
Sounds like the oil can drain out through the center tube on Subarus, that's why Baxter came up with that anti-siphon adaptor you posted about in another thread.
 

ZeeOSix

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You saying this is the first time I've ever heard anyone mention such a thing and for all the complaining I've heard about Fram, I can't believe I've never heard anyone say this.
Yeah, that kind of came out of nowhere ... "notorious for leaky ADBV due to poor baseplate stampings". Poor in what way? ... I haven't seen any proof of this claim. :unsure:
 
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