Subaru - best AWD technology?

[NissanMaxima]

Hi all: I've been looking to get a used Subaru Forester or Outback for Colorado winters because I understand their AWD is the best - bar none. I've seen some interesting youtube videos of Rav4's, Honda CRV's and the like trying to climb up inclines etc.and they all fail compared to the Subaru. From what I understand, and correct me if I'm wrong, what makes the Subaru AWD unique is that all four wheels are powered ALL the time. According to awdwiki.com, from '96 on there is a constant 80/20 power split between from and rear but what I don't know is if that is further increased to the rear when rear wheel slippage is detected. Even a Subaru shop here couldn't answer that question for me. I understand the competition like Toyota, Honda, Kia, etc. etc. have 100% power to the front wheels and rely on rear wheel slippage before rear wheels are powered.

Do folks here concur Subaru has the best AWD system out there? What about the Haldex system on Volvos like the V50? They have always had a reputation for very good safety but what about their AWD?

 

[T-Bone]

That is a great question!

I suspect that Subaru has one of the best "not getting stuck" AWD systems. Those videos where the later-model Subarus get up a roller incline with just one wheel are quite impressive.

For vehicle handling and overall safety, I'm not sure Subaru is best. Many of the other brand systems are quite sophisticated. But Subaru's AWD is a good one.

I say this as a Subaru owner.

I am very interested in learning how some of the high-end AWD systems such as Mercedes, BMW, Lexus, etc. fare.

 

[Shellguy]

Honestly....my 07 impreza was a world beater in the northeast winters..nothing seemed to slow it down. Subaru makes a solid car imo...

 

[sw99]

I'm really not sure who is the best on the technical side but Subaru's system sure works. From what I have seen with the newer cars, they are getting way more computerized. IIRC, the subi system is relatively simple in comparison. That's probably why I like it so much. I miss my 97' legacy for sure.

 

[SumpChump]

I've never seen a stuck Subaru.... ever.

I've also never seen one older than 7years up here not rustyyyy.

It seems the they frequently are kinda loud, perhaps exhaust gasket design or something.

 

[NissanMaxima]

Thanks: Originally I was considering Rav4's, Honda CRV's, Kia, etc. until I read about Subaru and saw some videos. Some folks on Youtube argued some were sponsored by Subaru but I did see others that appeared independent. The Subaru performance on rollers and snow does seem to be superior. However, limiting the search to Subaru, as you can imagine, makes it hard to find one especially when I want a clean, well-maintained one. The other issue is that they are all over-priced in the Colorado market by upwards of 20% above what I see as fair market dealer on kbb and nadaguides. I've argued with many a dealer about that and even though kbb requests zip code and apparently accounts for the part of the country, dealers still demand a premium and will not budge by much. I just wanted to be sure I wasn't overlooking other quality AWD vehicles. I also considered a true 4wd vehicle and Jeeps are pretty popular here but don't like their styling and worst reliability rating on Consumer Reports. A Toyota 4Runner would be nice but would you believe they can sell for 18-20 k here even with 200k miles or more, and, they are in poor condition!?

 

[Vern_in_IL]

Did Subaru finally fix the blown head gasket issues?

 

[TinyVoices]

Yeah they replaced it with ridiculous oil consumption issue.

 

[RedOakRanch]

I'm blown away with my 2016 Outback. Flawless realiablity and traction. I have driven it in driving rain, loose snow and packed ice. It never lost its footing. I recently drove it through 2 creek crossings with steep and muddy approaches. I then went across a field and down a canyon. It kicked out an inch climbing up and out of the creek on wet clay. Other than that it was like driving on pavement. It was much more forgiving than my Silverado 4x4. The truck would have ploughed the front tire and chewed up the inside rear on muddy ground. The final climb out was up hill and around a corner on loose shale over mud, again not a single hiccup, I was impressed!

 

[bbhero]

#1 vehicle seen in Vermont. And it wasn't all that close either. When my lady and I went up to Vermont on vacation we both noted just how many all wheel drive Subarus we saw up there. It was impressive.

 

[RedOakRanch]

No oil usage, blown head gaskets or bad wheel bearings so far! You do have to replace the stock Subaru tires though!

 

[bvance554]

Subaru's AWD works great. I bought a brand new Forester once and never have I owned such a money pit.

 

[hemitruck]

subaru is very good. i am partial to the grand cherokee quasar drive though.

 

[hemitruck]

subaru is very good. i am partial to the grand cherokee quadra drive though.

 

[RazorsEdge]

Do a search on Youtube of Subaru vs Mazda CX-5.

I'll take a Mazda CX-5 any day over a Subaru!

 

[d00df00d]

From what I can tell, Subaru has multiple slightly different AWD systems, but they all default to a 50:50 torque split or thereabouts (up to 60:40 in either direction) and can transfer most of their torque to either axle and/or lock them as needed.

If I were to buy an AWD vehicle for road use -- can't imagine I would, but just for the sake of argument -- I'd want one that was 100% RWD and only transferred power forward as necessary, with a limited-slip or torque vectoring function in the rear diff at least (ideally front as well). Not many of those on the road, unfortunately, so I'd just have to get as close to that as possible.

If I were to buy an off-road vehicle, I'd want legitimate locking axles.

For winter traction, the advantages of winter tires are FAR more important than the advantages of AWD vs. 2WD, let alone one AWD system vs. another. Unless you absolutely cannot afford the remotest possibility of staying home for a day or two per year due to snow, you're better off buying the car you want regardless of which wheels are driven, and then keeping a second set of cheap wheels with winter tires for the snowy months.

 

[92saturnsl2]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
For winter traction, the advantages of winter tires are FAR more important than the advantages of AWD vs. 2WD, let alone one AWD system vs. another. Unless you absolutely cannot afford the remotest possibility of staying home for a day or two per year due to snow, you're better off buying the car you want regardless of which wheels are driven, and then keeping a second set of cheap wheels with winter tires for the snowy months.


You seem to contradict yourself-- so if one can't afford the possibility of staying home, are you implying that 4wd is better? Wouldn't that indicate that 4wd has better traction? I think it depends on which type of traction you value more.

I've spent all my driving years in rough winter climates- Colorado and Vermont and I couldn't disagree with you more. AWD/4wd gets you moving, when you otherwise might not. No amount of winter tire is going to give you the same traction while accelerating as 4wd would.

I can change my driving behavior to account for poor stopping and cornering performance, if the tires suck. I can't wave a magic wand and get my vehicle moving if I find myself stopped on an icy incline.

Having been stuck more than once (mostly in my younger days when nothing stopped me from getting on the roads), given the choice between AWD and winter tires-- I know which one I'm choosing!

 

[Andrew1972]

Subaru has I incredible AWD because it's simple and the vehicles are designed from chassis up to be AWD.

Nearly every other car maker except Audi jury rigs an AWD system after the fact into a FWD chassis for a vehicle. Subaru does not depend on electronics as much as other systems to put traction at the prior wheel. So when going gets rough the computer traction control is less apt to go haywire.

My wife has a 2005 Legacy turbo with pure mechanical bliss AWD with 45/55 split normally coupled to a LSD rear diff and NO electronics. Just fluid shearing and it works very well.

The best no idea but in top tier with reliable units Subaru has designed since wary 1980's unlike another other car maker except Audi.

 

[4WD]

Don't think all of them are "fixed" ... lots of computer aid . My Ford has a selection knob for conditions etc ...
In any case. - it is widely known the Subaru is an awesome snow vehicle ...not just the AWD but the boxer keeps CG down.

 

[gofast182]

DO NOT let yourself be swayed by those videos. Many of them are sponsored by Subaru and are set up to exploit strengths in their system and not the others. Examples/clue/flaws:

In some videos you'll see "Subaru Symmetrical All Wheel Drive"or the "Subaru" logo, the formal branding, but you won't see that for the other competitors systems.

The United States Auto Club isn't a prestigious organization and lets automakers use them as a foil for manufacturer sponsored tests. In one of the videos it actually says Subaru gave them considerations for the video.

When do you ever drive your Subaru or RAV4 on rollers? Never. The problem with those is they're zero friction. Even on hard packed snow and some ice there's some level of friction aka traction, albeit very small. For example the '12-'14 CR-V actually disabled its AWD system when there was literally zero friction to protect the components (again keeping in mind in the real world there's usually some level of traction, even on ice).

Tires! So much of this is down to tires that each OE chooses. Btw I'll take a Focus with high quality snow tires over an Impreza with AWD and all-seasons any day.

Settings! In the videos (like the ones that magically have a Subaru logo but not the other mfrs) we don't know what the vehicle stability or traction control system setting were.



Does Subaru make a great AWD system? YES! But in the real world, not YouTube videos, the playing field and your results will be quite different. I remember taking my wife's new '10 CR-V out a few hours after the snow stopped falling in 31" blizzard here in NJ when there was a state of emergency. It was a scary and dumb thing do do but I never got stuck and I passed real 4WD trucks that were stuck.

Does Subaru make the best AWD system? Close, but in my opinion, no! For example I feel that the SH-AWD in our MDX is superior. Not only is it always on you've got some really trick torque vectoring. How about Quattro? It's really good.

But I think back to my old '10 CR-V with the system that only operated after front wheel spin and could only transfer a small percentage of torque to the rear and how it got me through snow big trucks couldn't and ask: what do you think you really need and why?

You won't go wrong with a Subaru for sure but for the percentage of time roads are snow covered I'd buy a nicer car instead of a "nicer" AWD system and still never get stuck.