Stunning blow to electric car industry

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Comparable in what way? It seems the only thing you can ever tout about is my 10 sec car after saying here you will probably not do over 100 mph or jackrabbit starts. The 10 sec deal is useless bragging and boasting along with your free electricity.
These cars and many more are less expensive and a much nicer car in every way. Unlike Tesla you can usually them for less than MSRP, the $2500 off BMW has now brings a 5 series less than 55K before making a deal.

https://www.audiusa.com/us/web/en/models/a4/s4-sedan/2024/overview.html

https://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/3-series/3-series-sedan/bmw-3-series-sedan.html#technical-data
That's easy; just read what I was responding to. It is about fuel economy for a comparable car.
Basically a 500+ HP sedan that costs $55K. AFAIK, there aren't any cars close to that; perhaps you do?

It's easy enough to find other sedans comparable in other ways, but not in power/price/fuel economy.
The amount of energy required to push a given car with similar weight and efficiency has to be about the same. I believe electricity generally cost less for the given amount of energy required.

Perhaps you know the amount of gas required to push a 4,000 lb car with 500 HP?
 
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Comparable in what way? It seems the only thing you can ever tout about is my 10 sec car after saying here you will probably not do over 100 mph or jackrabbit starts. The 10 sec deal is useless bragging and boasting along with your free electricity.
These cars and many more are less expensive and a much nicer car in every way. Unlike Tesla you can usually them for less than MSRP, the $2500 off BMW has now brings a 5 series less than 55K before making a deal.

https://www.audiusa.com/us/web/en/models/a4/s4-sedan/2024/overview.html

https://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/3-series/3-series-sedan/bmw-3-series-sedan.html#technical-data
He was attempting to answer my question. post #69

in his defense.
 
That's easy; just read what I was responding to. It is about fuel economy for a comparable car.
Basically a 500+ HP sedan that costs $55K. AFAIK, there aren't any cars close to that; perhaps you do?

It's easy enough to find other sedans comparable in other ways, but not in power/price/fuel economy.
The amount of energy required to push a given car with similar weight and efficiency has to be about the same. I believe electricity generally cost less for the given amount of energy required.

Perhaps you know the amount of gas required to push a 4,000 lb car with 500 HP?
What is your hangup with performance and HP? You already admitted you will not use anywhere near the performance and on the street no one is without getting pinched or damaging the suspension with the terrible roads. You are way off base with this IMO.
 
Ford wasn't always a truck company. They were the second largest auto company in the USA for a long time. I grew up riding around in a Ford Sedan of one type or another. The Escort was the number 1 car in America. Then the Taurus. The Explorer was the most popular SUV. The Panther chasis provided taxi's and Law enforcement vehicles of choice for a decade and were the darling here for longer.

No Ford really has lost its way. It really got ramped up under Mullaly. Another Steller Boeing exec. / sarc.
Had many Ford products and liked them all.
My 93 SHO and 93 Lightning were a great combo.

When my kids focus never got its trans fixed I went away mad....
 
It’s not political to say “don’t steal from my wallet” while being held at gunpoint
It gets old when the follow up is this/that party or this/that President. I check out. I literally don't care what someone's political leanings are. They asked me a question about cars. I wasn't looking for a debate, but some keep that in their back pocket and are just ready to pull it out. It's like the setup to a punch line because someone heard from someone else that I own an EV. I'm happy to share the info when it doesn't feel like an attack.

It would almost be refreshing if they hated on my turbo 2.0 for not being a V8. At least it wouldn't sound like a talking point.

If you take me buying an EV that I didn't qualify for a tax credit for as stealing from your wallet and want to take it out on me while I'm captive at work, I'd suggest that person to seek help. I'm not sure why my choice of vehicle gives someone the right to act like that. Trust me, it happens more than it should. I can't just leave the room/locomotive cab and abandon my post because someone is being belligerent. I know the topics I bring up here get some heated. This is a place for deeper discussion. I don't bring it up at work.
 
Ford, basically a truck company, decided to build more trucks. Im not sure who is actually stunned, but maybe some are?

Their Ev's aren't all that competitive to begin with, but this was all supposed to be very easy.
They have large holding lots full of corporate owned trucks out in fields that they still haven’t cleared .

Their trucks aren’t selling and inventory levels keep building.

Why build more of something that isn’t selling?
 
What is your hangup with performance and HP? You already admitted you will not use anywhere near the performance and on the street no one is without getting pinched or damaging the suspension with the terrible roads. You are way off base with this IMO.
The question was about comparing fuel efficiency between similar cars. I'm sure you understand this better than most.

To answer your question, no one needs this much performance and HP. Heck, no one needs most of the cars on my street, but I like 'em all.
The guy across the street has one of those beautiful sounding MBZ Bi-Turbos and his wife has a newer Model Y Performance. Personally I wouldn't buy either one but each to their own, right?

Why did I buy the new M3P? It's a nice upgrade (seats and suspension) from our early car and I wanted it.
 
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The question was about comparing fuel efficiency between similar cars. I'm sure you understand this better than most.

To answer your question, no one needs this much performance and HP. Heck, no one needs most of the cars on my street, but I like 'em all.
The guy across the street has one of those beautiful sounding MBZ Bi-Turbos and his wife has a newer Model Y Performance. Personally I wouldn't buy either one but each to their own, right?

Why did I buy the new M3P? It's a nice upgrade (seats and suspension) from our early car and I wanted it.
Hey no problem with that, you liked, you wanted it and you bought it because you wanted it not needed it, big kudos.
 
But what happens when you flood the system with additional load at night? Magically, demand is no longer lower at any time. And then that complicates things even further for power companies & their PM schedules, which forces additional capacity to be added/maintained…

If pricing is done right the supply will be stable and demand will follow the supply. The goal is to make the grid and generation stable, not the price being the same everywhere or the consumers happy at any particular hour of the day.

I would hope one day EV owners would have a plan to sign up and let the utility decide when to charge how much, and as long as they can guarantee N kwh before 7am that's all good. It already happens on air conditioning and I'm on a "smart rate" plan, that PG&E can throttle (on 15 mins off 15 mins) my AC up to 15 days a year in exchange for a lower rate the rest of the year. It actually works very well and my home is not any hotter.
 
There are ways to store power without a battery. Hydro storage. There was someone working on Gyro storage - spin them up and they win spin for days. I think we should be working on that sort of thing rather than giving tax rebates to the rich to entice OEM's to build more EV's.
Well, EV was originally supposed to be that storage, or a way to take excess energy from the grid and use it to replace gasoline that you have to burn anyways. Anyways storing energy from the grid is always going to be hard in large scale. Nobody can store enough to avoid duck curve, you can only waste generation to smooth out the duck curve, or you have to charge enough so people are afraid to use large amount during that time. Nobody can store solar for 24 hours cost effectively compare to just turn on the gas turbine at night.

I do think we are heading into the direction of letting the grid decide when to charge our car in exchange for a discount, along with drying our clothes, making ice in our freezer, and most importantly, I hope they will encourage AC build in the future to make ice during off peak time and just melt those ice during peak time. If they incentive the owners enough they would sell, and it won't cost much (just a big box of water and ice slush pump, etc).

If AI keep using all the electricity out there it would use up all the solar output, plus all the NG and nuke, there will be no duck curve left.
 
I wouldn't characterize this as a "stunning blow to the electric car industry". More like a hard knock to Ford, which has had no success with its EV efforts to date. That Ford has quickly pivoted and having built this potential into this plant indicates at least some degree of management forethought.
EVs will continue to gain penetration as a proportion of the overall light vehicle fleet as millions are added to the existing base worldwide each year. Maybe not a rapid gain, but a gain nonetheless.
Those who have no interest in buying one can always come here with straw man arguments against them while proclaiming that those who've bought them and are happy with their purchases are obviously clueless and need more Fox News therapy.
 
I wouldn't characterize this as a "stunning blow to the electric car industry". More like a hard knock to Ford, which has had no success with its EV efforts to date. That Ford has quickly pivoted and having built this potential into this plant indicates at least some degree of management forethought.
EVs will continue to gain penetration as a proportion of the overall light vehicle fleet as millions are added to the existing base worldwide each year. Maybe not a rapid gain, but a gain nonetheless.
Those who have no interest in buying one can always come here with straw man arguments against them while proclaiming that those who've bought them and are happy with their purchases are obviously clueless and need more Fox News therapy.
I agree, EVs are here to stay and I will also say lithium is not the final word anymore than the filament light bulb was. More so with EVs if we ever for some unknown reason want to get rid of gasoline vehicles it will have to be something better than lithium. If the price ever becomes on par with gasoline from a dealer near me, like GM we will have one as a second car maybe. Not sure if that can be done in 2 years or less. We are to the point that although our second car still runs like new and perfect shape, it's getting OLD and we are tired of it. Yet we dont really use it, so EV for local car would be fun, I think. Electric dirt cheap here too, no matter how much I use any time of day, the cost is 10 cents a kWh... then again, gas is dirt cheap too, so its not about the cost as an EV will cost way more to insure.

A significant number of Americans will never put up with standing with their EV for 15 minutes or more to "fill it up" when they can do that with gasoline in less than 5 minutes. Talk about going backwards in time. Heck I even avoid gas stations with "slow" gas pumps *LOL* SO other than a local car charged at home which would be our use I would NEVER consider an EV for our travels.

The blow has nothing to do with Ford. It DOES have to do with the entire EV industry projections from MANY of the manufacturers selling in the USA.
We can not deny that sales growth has not met projections of almost every company here. To keep it simple, let use the biggest EV manufacturer here in the USA. Tesla. Sales growth stopped dead for Tesla in the USA almost a year ago and this year is negative. This is a far cry from their projections just less than 3 years ago. That is pretty poor in a nation with close to 300,000,000 (three hundred million) cars, less than 4 million are EV. The dealers should not be able to keep up with demand but they can, from all manufacturers, at the present time. My god we are giving away $7,500 per vehicle new and $4,000 used, how much more does it take to realize they are not in high demand!!??!?! (just having fun here)😀

Every USA manufacturer has since but back plans, not just Ford. The largest manufacturer of cars in the USA for 80 years - GM has also cut back plans until a clear picture of demand is met vs faulty projections.
 
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I agree, EVs are here to stay and I will also say lithium is not the final word anymore than the filament light bulb was. More so with EVs if we ever for some unknown reason want to get rid of gasoline vehicles it will ahve to be something better than lithium.

With that said, the blow has nothing to do with Ford. It DOES have to do with the entire EV industry projections from MANY of the manufacturers selling in the USA.
We can not deny that sales growth has not met projections of almost every company here. To keep it simple, let use the biggest EV manufacturer here in the USA. Tesla. Sales growth stopped dead almost a year ago and this year is negative.
Every USA manufacturer has since but back plans, not just Ford. The largest manufacturer of cars in the USA for 80 years - GM has also cut back plans until a clear picture of demand is met vs faulty projections.
Well, in this case it is just Ford, since they have failed to come up with a competitive EV product. The same is true of GM. Tesla just keeps humming along, looking very competent technically as compared to GM and Ford while the Chinese host the largest EV manufacturing base in the world. The success of Tesla and BYD would seem to indicate that the problem is with GM and Ford, not with EVs.
 
A significant number of Americans will never put up with standing with their EV for 15 minutes or more to "fill it up" when they can do that with gasoline in less than 5 minutes.
True. But it seems a large number will put up with sitting in line for 15 minutes to buy a $5 cup of fancy coffee from the take out window. Weird.
 
Well, in this case it is just Ford, since they have failed to come up with a competitive EV product. The same is true of GM. Tesla just keeps humming along, looking very competent technically as compared to GM and Ford while the Chinese host the largest EV manufacturing base in the world. The success of Tesla and BYD would seem to indicate that the problem is with GM and Ford, not with EVs.
Of note, I noticed at least 8 Ford Mustang Mach Es at an Avis/Budget branch here today. They all had Texas plates and appeared over the weekend. I wonder if Avis/Budget bought a bunch of them from Ford. I don’t believe the location has an EV charger on site.
 
Of note, I noticed at least 8 Ford Mustang Mach Es at an Avis/Budget branch here today. They all had Texas plates and appeared over the weekend. I wonder if Avis/Budget bought a bunch of them from Ford. I don’t believe the location has an EV charger on site.
Hopefully Avis is smarter than Hertz. No charger on that site, sounds like they might be not be that smart either.
 
Nobody can store solar for 24 hours cost effectively compared to just turning on the gas turbine at night.
And certainly the gas turbine and pipeline technology is already in place. Here is the pig launcher for the 40 inch TC Energy natural gas line that crosses into the USA from Canada near the Idaho border. It supplies 14% of California’s natural gas requirements. Recently a section of the line was twinned in Canada to provide extra gas storage to for supplying the pipeline when pulling harder on it during the evenings. Although the pressure transient would not reach back into Canada, the ups and downs in the gas production rate requires a lot of gas storage.

This competes with lithium battery based energy storage which has to be built from scratch at a huge capital cost, ultimately carried by the California tax payers.

CC1023BE-4B45-4B61-AD57-1DD41F693A44.jpeg
 
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CCS should allow turbines to run clean - never understood why we started to export LNG - too many things we can do with NG …
There's no shortage of LNG and we export it because ya know....the bear over the other side of the Atlantic is dumb.

On an aside the US flares/vents around 625M cubic feet of NatGas every day.
 
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