After seeing several UOAs that show just about all oils being sheared to the next grade down, I have thought about using a single weight oil instead of a multi-weight oil to help prevent this shearing effect. My bike is a 1990 Honda CBR 600F1 with roughly 24,000 miles on the odometer and a 12,000 RPM redline. The manual either calls for 10W-40 or 20W-50. If I do decide to run a single weight oil, I can not decide whether to use a 40W or 30W oil. I only ride during the spring/summer/fall months hear in northern and central PA. The coldest startup my bike may ever see is about 55-60 degrees. I've have been sugested to try a 30W oil but for some reason I would feel more comfortable with a 40W oil. The newer CBRs now run 10W-30 from the factory but I don't know if my bike would be safe using a 30W oil. If I was to use a 40W oil, at what temp would it be NOT safe to start my bike? Would I be safe running a 30W oil? I really appreciate your feedback.
straight weight oil for Honda sportbike
- Thread starter muffinstew
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why not a good hdeo 15w40 like Supertech or even SRT?
what about Maxima 4 Ultra 15w50 or Motul 300 10w50 ?
30wt could easily be started at 55F, just let it warm up too
40wt maybe 65F
10w30 is 30wt oil, just doesnt have the winter 10 thinners in it.
i rode a goof2 for 10 years. loved that bike.
what about Maxima 4 Ultra 15w50 or Motul 300 10w50 ?
30wt could easily be started at 55F, just let it warm up too
40wt maybe 65F
10w30 is 30wt oil, just doesnt have the winter 10 thinners in it.
i rode a goof2 for 10 years. loved that bike.
Originally Posted By: sunruh
why not a good hdeo 15w40 like Supertech or even SRT?
what about Maxima 4 Ultra 15w50 or Motul 300 10w50 ?
30wt could easily be started at 55F, just let it warm up too
40wt maybe 65F
10w30 is 30wt oil, just doesnt have the winter 10 thinners in it.
i rode a goof2 for 10 years. loved that bike.
Last season I used synthetic Rotella 5W-40, and I thought it did pretty well for 3500 miles. The straight weight oil was only thought but you never know. I'm really not exited about paying 5+ dollars for a quart of oil so I'd rather use the oils I can pick up at WalMart. I'm not sure if I should try the new CJ-4 Rotella or stick with the old CI-4 oils?
why not a good hdeo 15w40 like Supertech or even SRT?
what about Maxima 4 Ultra 15w50 or Motul 300 10w50 ?
30wt could easily be started at 55F, just let it warm up too
40wt maybe 65F
10w30 is 30wt oil, just doesnt have the winter 10 thinners in it.
i rode a goof2 for 10 years. loved that bike.
Last season I used synthetic Rotella 5W-40, and I thought it did pretty well for 3500 miles. The straight weight oil was only thought but you never know. I'm really not exited about paying 5+ dollars for a quart of oil so I'd rather use the oils I can pick up at WalMart. I'm not sure if I should try the new CJ-4 Rotella or stick with the old CI-4 oils?
the jug of supertech 15w40 that i have is still ci-4
it held up better than the old srt ci-4 did.
and a lot better than the new cj-4 srt does!
it held up better than the old srt ci-4 did.
and a lot better than the new cj-4 srt does!
Originally Posted By: sunruh
the jug of supertech 15w40 that i have is still ci-4
it held up better than the old srt ci-4 did.
and a lot better than the new cj-4 srt does!
Your bike seems to eat oil alive. I don't think my bike would be as tough on the oil. It's not like I'm constantly riding around at 12,000 rpms. But your UOAs are really fun to read. In your opinion what would hold up better in my bike; an hdeo 15W-40 or a pcmo 20W-50 such as pennzoil or havoline? I can get Golden Spectro 4 at my Honda dealer for $8 a quart but I don't think it would be worth the money. I have always been a Pennzoil fan so I was also thinking about 15W-40 long life?
the jug of supertech 15w40 that i have is still ci-4
it held up better than the old srt ci-4 did.
and a lot better than the new cj-4 srt does!
Your bike seems to eat oil alive. I don't think my bike would be as tough on the oil. It's not like I'm constantly riding around at 12,000 rpms. But your UOAs are really fun to read. In your opinion what would hold up better in my bike; an hdeo 15W-40 or a pcmo 20W-50 such as pennzoil or havoline? I can get Golden Spectro 4 at my Honda dealer for $8 a quart but I don't think it would be worth the money. I have always been a Pennzoil fan so I was also thinking about 15W-40 long life?
Well after reading my service manual, to my suprise it does spec 10W-30 for temps between 20-85 degrees F. I did not know this so now the thought of using a straight 30 doesn't seem so bad. But after going on alot of wensites and looking at different oil viscosities at 40 degrees C, I found a wide variety ranging between 140 and 165. The two thinnest SAE40 weights I found were Exxon Superflo and Valvoline conventional. It seems to me that those are thin for straight 40 weights considering most 20W-50 are thicker at this temp. All though it is rare for the temp to be 90 degrees on a typical summer day, it does happen but a single 30 would be less prone to shear then the 10W-30 at this temp, right? So basically, it comes down to using a straight 30, or a really thin SAE40 like Exxon Superflo at 140cST at 40 degrees C?
Last edited:
Hi muffinstew,
You said,
"So basically, it comes down to using a straight 30, or a really thin SAE40 like Exxon Superflo at 140cST at 40 degrees C?"
Or you could simply follow the recommendation of the people who designed, engineered, and performed extensive testing on your model of motorcycle.
You said,
"So basically, it comes down to using a straight 30, or a really thin SAE40 like Exxon Superflo at 140cST at 40 degrees C?"
Or you could simply follow the recommendation of the people who designed, engineered, and performed extensive testing on your model of motorcycle.
All though I can not argue that comment, it scares me when I see a 20W-50 like Golgen Spectro 4 be sheared down to a 30W in a matter of 2000 miles.
i dont see where you are getting this thin superflo 40wt from?
my USED sample was a 73.2 (ie 13.7879 cSt 100C) with a flash of 440.
not a single 10w40 i've tested has hit a susvis of 67!!!
i've already made 6 recommendations. your choice.
my USED sample was a 73.2 (ie 13.7879 cSt 100C) with a flash of 440.
not a single 10w40 i've tested has hit a susvis of 67!!!
i've already made 6 recommendations. your choice.
sorry i meant 40 degrees C.
I wouldnt be worried about shear as much as getting oil flow to your upper cylinder parts quickly on cold starts.
straight 40 way to thick on cold starts IMO
straight 40 way to thick on cold starts IMO
Originally Posted By: Mackelroy
I wouldnt be worried about shear as much as getting oil flow to your upper cylinder parts quickly on cold starts.
This concern has been over-rated. The oil pump is positive displacement - the same amount of oil gets pumped regardless of viscosity. Only question is, what is the relief pressure setting on the oil pump. Mine is 90 PSI, I believe.
The only real concern should be cylinder wall lubrication as it depends on oil thrown off through the connecting rod bearings of the spinning crankshaft. It is here that cold oil will be slower.
Originally Posted By: Mackelroy
straight 40 way to thick on cold starts IMO
Depends on what your cold start temperature is. If it's -30F or even +30f, then you're well advised to run a multi-grade oil. That's what it was invented for. OTOH, if your cold start temperatures are 60F or higher, the SAE-40 at 60F is way thinner than your 5W-30 is at -30F. Even so, operating the engine at lower rpm's for several minutes will add heat to the oil without causing undue wear.
I can't tell you how many people I've seen "blip" their throttle immediately after starting their engine. These same people, after blipping the throttle several times will then rat-race off with their bike, making NO attempt at keeping rpm's down for the first several minutes. THIS is what causes wear.
OTOH, your engine is at operating temperature far longer than it is cold once running. Once at operating temperature, NOTHING keeps moving parts separated better than a mono-grade oil of the specified operating temperature viscosity. The cam lobes receive the most benefit from a thicker oil. The thicker, the better.
I wouldnt be worried about shear as much as getting oil flow to your upper cylinder parts quickly on cold starts.
This concern has been over-rated. The oil pump is positive displacement - the same amount of oil gets pumped regardless of viscosity. Only question is, what is the relief pressure setting on the oil pump. Mine is 90 PSI, I believe.
The only real concern should be cylinder wall lubrication as it depends on oil thrown off through the connecting rod bearings of the spinning crankshaft. It is here that cold oil will be slower.
Originally Posted By: Mackelroy
straight 40 way to thick on cold starts IMO
Depends on what your cold start temperature is. If it's -30F or even +30f, then you're well advised to run a multi-grade oil. That's what it was invented for. OTOH, if your cold start temperatures are 60F or higher, the SAE-40 at 60F is way thinner than your 5W-30 is at -30F. Even so, operating the engine at lower rpm's for several minutes will add heat to the oil without causing undue wear.
I can't tell you how many people I've seen "blip" their throttle immediately after starting their engine. These same people, after blipping the throttle several times will then rat-race off with their bike, making NO attempt at keeping rpm's down for the first several minutes. THIS is what causes wear.
OTOH, your engine is at operating temperature far longer than it is cold once running. Once at operating temperature, NOTHING keeps moving parts separated better than a mono-grade oil of the specified operating temperature viscosity. The cam lobes receive the most benefit from a thicker oil. The thicker, the better.
Gary,
Thank you for posting. I do enjoy reading your information. After a few hours of researching many product data sheets for SAE-40, I found a wide variety of viscosities at 40 degrees C ranging from 165 down to 132. The two thinnest grades I found were Quaker State conventional and Valvoline VR1. The thickest I found was Pennzoil conventional. Would it be safe to say, a thinner 40 weight would help with this issue of bottom end "splash" lubrication? I know that any HDEO would be a great choice and I have already been made aware of that in this thread, but I am seroiusly intrested in trying a straight weight oil and having it analyzed to see if it indeed is any better then multi-viscosity oils.
Thank you for posting. I do enjoy reading your information. After a few hours of researching many product data sheets for SAE-40, I found a wide variety of viscosities at 40 degrees C ranging from 165 down to 132. The two thinnest grades I found were Quaker State conventional and Valvoline VR1. The thickest I found was Pennzoil conventional. Would it be safe to say, a thinner 40 weight would help with this issue of bottom end "splash" lubrication? I know that any HDEO would be a great choice and I have already been made aware of that in this thread, but I am seroiusly intrested in trying a straight weight oil and having it analyzed to see if it indeed is any better then multi-viscosity oils.
Originally Posted By: Mackelroy
I wouldnt be worried about shear as much as getting oil flow to your upper cylinder parts quickly on cold starts.
straight 40 way to thick on cold starts IMO
Define cold start.
I wouldnt be worried about shear as much as getting oil flow to your upper cylinder parts quickly on cold starts.
straight 40 way to thick on cold starts IMO
Define cold start.
the coldest would be 55 degrees but thats rare. The coldest would be a PA summer's morning.
I have a 87 cbr 600 f-1 Hurricane that I bought new it now has 106,000 miles on it and it still runs good. Ive used 20w50 Golden Spectro Syn Blend in it for about 90,000 miles, for the last 16,000 miles Ive used Shell Rotella T 15w40 both oils have worked well in the engine/transmission.
If you dont ride it in temps below 40 degrees ether 20w50 or 15w40 will be fine.
-Daryl
If you dont ride it in temps below 40 degrees ether 20w50 or 15w40 will be fine.
-Daryl
Originally Posted By: muffinstew
Gary, Thank you for posting. I do enjoy reading your information.
Thank you for the kind words.
Originally Posted By: muffinstew
After a few hours of researching many product data sheets for SAE-40, I found a wide variety of viscosities at 40 degrees C ranging from 165 down to 132. The two thinnest grades I found were Quaker State conventional and Valvoline VR1. The thickest I found was Pennzoil conventional.
I like and use Pennzoil SAE-40 mainly because of it's higher operating viscosity AND it's higher flash-point. Probably unnecessary overkill.
Originally Posted By: muffinstew
Would it be safe to say, a thinner 40 weight would help with this issue of bottom end "splash" lubrication?
I would be more concerned with the viscosity at operating temperature than the throw-off at start-up. Remember, everything inside your engine internals has a coat of oil on it when you start your bike. As long as you don't over-rev a cold engine, that residual oil will be more than sufficient to preclude metal-to-metal wear. Lubrication requirements rise dramatically with increased rpm. That thinner SAE-40 is just that - thinner.
Oh, and it's not a "splash" lubrication (like small lawnmower engines), it's pumped and throw-off.
Originally Posted By: muffinstew
I am seroiusly intrested in trying a straight weight oil and having it analyzed to see if it indeed is any better then multi-viscosity oils.
Depends on what you're looking for. When it comes to viscosity loss, the mono-grade will definitely be better than a multi-grade, and that includes synthetic multi-grades. If you're looking at "additives," you're not going to see much difference. If you're looking at wear metals, the mono-grade is going to surpass the multi-grade simply because there's more oil between the moving parts with mono-grades.
It'll be fun for you to find out with actual oil analysis.
Gary, Thank you for posting. I do enjoy reading your information.
Thank you for the kind words.
Originally Posted By: muffinstew
After a few hours of researching many product data sheets for SAE-40, I found a wide variety of viscosities at 40 degrees C ranging from 165 down to 132. The two thinnest grades I found were Quaker State conventional and Valvoline VR1. The thickest I found was Pennzoil conventional.
I like and use Pennzoil SAE-40 mainly because of it's higher operating viscosity AND it's higher flash-point. Probably unnecessary overkill.
Originally Posted By: muffinstew
Would it be safe to say, a thinner 40 weight would help with this issue of bottom end "splash" lubrication?
I would be more concerned with the viscosity at operating temperature than the throw-off at start-up. Remember, everything inside your engine internals has a coat of oil on it when you start your bike. As long as you don't over-rev a cold engine, that residual oil will be more than sufficient to preclude metal-to-metal wear. Lubrication requirements rise dramatically with increased rpm. That thinner SAE-40 is just that - thinner.
Oh, and it's not a "splash" lubrication (like small lawnmower engines), it's pumped and throw-off.
Originally Posted By: muffinstew
I am seroiusly intrested in trying a straight weight oil and having it analyzed to see if it indeed is any better then multi-viscosity oils.
Depends on what you're looking for. When it comes to viscosity loss, the mono-grade will definitely be better than a multi-grade, and that includes synthetic multi-grades. If you're looking at "additives," you're not going to see much difference. If you're looking at wear metals, the mono-grade is going to surpass the multi-grade simply because there's more oil between the moving parts with mono-grades.
It'll be fun for you to find out with actual oil analysis.
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