Manipulation is using leverage to get a desired result.
Fund managers do this all the time to drive stock direction.
stock market
- Thread starter Oildudeny
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Fund managers do this all the time to drive stock direction.
I had high hopes last spring it was the end and I would start to see bankers stepping out of windows. But true to form Gov stepped in and bailed them out, and they keep bailing. The illusion of infinite growth in a world with quantifiable limits something has to give.
First off, I agree that it may not be investing, but not everything happening on the market is investing. However you cannot deny that in order for market to work we have to let people decide what is right for them. What Enron did was technically justified (buying up all the grid capacity and then black out the state to jack up the bid). What Pharma Bro did was also technically justified (buying up a small generic drug company and then jack up a medicine 1000%).
Manipulating the market and get a crowd funding effort to decimate you? That's just losing the game they started. They bluff and they lost.
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Market has always been an illusion, as soon as there is an uneven amount of bargaining power between the buying and selling side. GME was shorted 120% (or was it 140%), the shorter was trying to manipulate and they got out manipulated.
Goldman Sachs bought up so much aluminum and they were shuffling them in and out of warehouses before they were evicted, manipulating it so much that Alcoa and Coca Cola had to strike deals off market to avoid these congestions. Nobody said a word on Wall Street Journal because nobody dare to mess with GS.
Market huh? It is just a magic show.
I don't have a problem of companies and people getting rich, I really don't.
If the companies I invest in did a market manipulation and got out manipulated, do I blame the management or do I blame the public? I probably would sign up for a lawsuit to fire the CEO, rather than blaming the public. I certainly didn't blame the public when the tide is in my favor, I probably would have gave the CEO a big fat bonus for it. So, if a hedge fund I was investing in loses money because they mess with the wrong guy, I'd fire the manager, instead of blaming the wrong guy.
p.s. HF managers made wrong bets and get fired a lot. Everyone gangster on HF until a black swan, then they get fired and the investors lost.
I think you're speculating on the intent. Gaming and other entertainment is limited these days. There was nothing illegal in what was tried. They could have easily lost their shirt too if enough people jumped in on the short side and forced their side down. I think the main problem is probably the volume. Robinhood is a small company so they if they didn't have enough liquidly to cover the trades, then people shouldn't count on them that much and go with one of the bigger firms. I think the small investors were basically playing with short money so they probably had less to lose than the big shorts. They just somehow managed to get enough to jump in and force it up. Usually the shorts win when enough of them pile on and you see a stock collapse overnight.
Investments were made on both sides. One side felt it was too high, the other side thought they could make money if enough people got in on it and there was a short squeeze. Whatever happened to live by the sword, die by the sword. You know what you're getting into when you're into shorts, your upside is limited because the stock can only go to 0, but downside is unlimited because as you can see, the stock can go up 10x.
That usually means it's done behind closed doors. This was done in the open on a public forum. Lots of times people tout specific stocks or strategies. Is it manipulation when many here tell you to buy the S&P 500 and the reason they like it is because they also have tons of shares? I think I've fully disclosed that I got a very hefty share of it in my portfolio.
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Sometimes the big guys don’t always win.
Remember Bill Ackman trying to bankrupt and force Herbalife out of business.... ?
I don’t blame recent new, young investors (day traders?) watching some YouTube videos, opening a RH account, using their stimulus / unemployment checks to make some quick cash.
I had some nice gains this past year with some speculation and keeping my eyes open.
Remember Bill Ackman trying to bankrupt and force Herbalife out of business.... ?
I don’t blame recent new, young investors (day traders?) watching some YouTube videos, opening a RH account, using their stimulus / unemployment checks to make some quick cash.
I had some nice gains this past year with some speculation and keeping my eyes open.
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No they don't.
Some HEDGE FUND managers of course try, but most are too small with the larger issues to have any impact. But did you mean to include other groups and individuals? So YOU made this statement, please post evidence..........you used a very broad term, this kind of statement does not help the situation at all by saying in very broad terms something happens ALL THE TIME.
3-4 sources would be great!
Thanks.
Don't have a 401K, not stressed, lol. Scary times though!
The way I see it is a HF got greedy and kept shorting past the point of no return... the internet managed to semi-collectively come together and start buying up shares against them and here we are. The HF played the game and lost.
The markets were already manipulated, in particular by the hedge funds who had put on artificially large short positions on GME to begin with and had not appropriately managed their risk.
This created the Reddit opportunity.
Please do your own homework before asking me to do it for you.
No.
You made the ignorant sounding imprecise statement. And It seems like you did not at all understand my reply. Re-read it please.
YOU implicated all funds. OEMF's, CEF's, ETF's etc. A novice reading that could doubt his/her own funds, for example.
I am not taking sides in this situation, so please don't assume anything.
"YOU implicated all funds"
That's not what I meant. Was my post poorly worded? You can make that case.
The GME issue specifically concerns hedge funds.
And I never said "all".
You did not differentiate, yes very poorly worded. So by saying "fund managers"........................PLUS you did write ALL the time.
I hate to come to the defense of a group that certainly does not need defending, but even all HEDGE fund managers don't do all this, nor do they do it all the time.
The whole thing is a ball of snakes and mostly way way over the heads of most/some(?) retail investors. Man on the street, can precisely tell us what a short squeeze is? I am not personally picking on you. It's just the whole thing is fuzzy enough, we don't need more fuzziness in the mix, and people getting riled up without complete knowledge. Rant over, sorry for this bugging me.
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The actual number of BITOG posts on TSLA are about 50/50 pro and con.
But, interestingly, the number of posters that have made pro and con posts are about 1:10.
With one poster banging the pro TSLA drum incessantly, arguing every con post, over and over, even starting numerous pro TSLA threads, so that the number of posts, pro and con, are about equal.
In that way, this one poster is much like the Redditors, pumping up this one stock.
Is BITOG big enough to actually influence the market, or a particular stock? No. I don’t believe so.
But the “buzz” and “hype” on this forum closely parallels the events around GameStop and AMC; one small minority taking one position while the majority disagrees, and in light of recent events I’ve asked myself if BITOG needs to be careful in allowing hype to be posted over and over. Even my wife asked that question yesterday.
I think we’re safe allowing the individual stock and company specific discussion (and the concomitant hype) to take place here since we are so small compared with Reddit, or FB. The discussion is germane to an automotive forum, and it is interesting and polite.
On that note, let’s please keep this discussion polite.
Thanks,
Astro
If any of my posts are taken as impolite, I apologize.
That is not my intension and is why I try and say please and thank you.
Again, I apologize for any impolite remarks, regardless of my intension.
It is a privilege to be on this forum. And I learn a lot.
