stock market

[Ws6]

Jeff - I wasn't specifically targeting you with my admonition to remain polite (though, in the realm of pro/con, we all know you're the pro-TSLA camp leader).

Your posts have always been thoughtful, detailed and valuable.

I respect your opinion, though I may not always agree with it. I believe that many other BITOG folks respect your opinion as well.

It's because of the value of your perspective, and the perspective of others, in this discussion, that I wanted to keep the thread open. It's a good discussion.

But in order to keep the thread open, we have to keep the discussion polite - and it's an "all hands" effort.

Thank you for your help in achieving that.

Cheers,
Astro

I strongly dislike Tesla and have clashed on this with Jeff. I don't recall ever being upset WITH Jeff. Just disagree with him. I feel like people's feelings are...frail...in today's world. I'm from an era where you could go out back, throw hands, solve the problem, and work next to each other after lunch just fine. I feel like an old man at 35 I guess

 

[JeffKeryk]

Jeff - I wasn't specifically targeting you with my admonition to remain polite (though, in the realm of pro/con, we all know you're the pro-TSLA camp leader).

Your posts have always been thoughtful, detailed and valuable.

I respect your opinion, though I may not always agree with it. I believe that many other BITOG folks respect your opinion as well.

It's because of the value of your perspective, and the perspective of others, in this discussion, that I wanted to keep the thread open. It's a good discussion.

But in order to keep the thread open, we have to keep the discussion polite - and it's an "all hands" effort.

Thank you for your help in achieving that.

Cheers,
Astro

Thanks for your kind words Astro.
Just the same, it is important TO ME to be respective of other's opinions.
We BITOGers are pretty passionate about things; heck we can go silly bonkers over oil brands!
So I wish to apologize for any post that are outta line.

Regarding Tesla cars and TSLA, I would like to clarify my opinion.
Tesla cars are amazing and have changed the world. But they are not for everyone.
If I could have only 1 car, it would not be a Tesla, or any EV.
For most people, a Honda, Totoya or many others probably makes more sense.
No one needs a Tesla, or a Vette, Beemer, Benz, you name it. But they are fun.

Tegarding TSLA stock, I would never recommend a single stock; it is too risky.
A nice low cost index fund offers tremendous flexibility and long term profitability, IMO.
Has the stock performed off the charts? Obviously; it is everyone's 2020 stock of the year.

Elon Musk and Tesla hold a special place in Silicon Valley.
Musk took over the shuttered GM/NUMMI site in Fremont, right up the road from me.
I toured NUMMI twice seeing Corollas and Toyota Pickups on the manufacturing lines.
When GM and Totoya left, thousands of good paying jobs were lost.
No only factory jobs, but support functions reght down to restaurants suffered.
Many lost their homes; Silicon Valley suffered.
When Fremont started back up, Musk placed full page ads in the SJ Mercury-News urging ex-employees to apply.
There are now more than 10,000 employees cranking out cars around the clock.

I salute and support Musk and Tesla for their achievements.

 

[Dave Hess]

I don't understand shorting because of the risk/reward. Way too much risk for me.
The most you can gain is 100%, and that is unlikely.
If the price goes up, your potential losses are theoretically unlimited.
In a squeeze, you might have to pay through the nose.

Gimme an nice index fund anyday. Safety 1st.

I don’t short, only twice I did it for a quick buck and pulled the trigger, made approx $10,000

With the markets rising since early last year..... 2X and 3X leveraged ETFs are my friends.

Yes, Tesla is a very innovative company and I like what I’ve seen, bought 400 shares cause I like what he’s doing.

 

[4WD]

Well, thinking the Pepsi generation (more like Red Bull & Monster) would only know about Musk

Martin Eberhard - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Marc Tarpenning - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[PandaBear]

I don't understand shorting because of the risk/reward. Way too much risk for me.
The most you can gain is 100%, and that is unlikely.
If the price goes up, your potential losses are theoretically unlimited.
In a squeeze, you might have to pay through the nose.

Gimme an nice index fund anyday. Safety 1st.

This is the difference between you, the retail investor, vs the powerful.

They have connections and can borrow or guarantee from people who control billions, they have "relationship", you know, the fraternity and the Skull and Bones society, the old money with family office, the Swiss bank accounts, etc. They will be the last survivor in every single game they play. Typically they diversify and they don't play this kind of game, but when they do they typically do it with a hedge somewhere.

The law of large number says if your number is large enough you will reach the middle of the bell curve, eventually. This short squeeze is just one incident out of thousands, and they can afford to lose it when they both short and long, selling options on both directions, owning so much shares that they will on average always make money and they know sooner or later they will hit a black swan and they will weather it. They are the house.

Do you ever see the lottery issuer went bankrupt? The house always win. The only loser is the one who think they are the house, and now they are asking the house to bail them out.

Robinhood is going to be in trouble if they even have problem with Starbucks trades. They might not be able to IPO any time soon.

 

[JLawrence08648]

There is an ETF that shorts stocks, and several that are short a substantial number of stocks.

Do you want to make money in GameStop, AMC, and others now, short! the stock since it's high or Buy Puts.

 

[Brybo86]

There is an ETF that shorts stocks, and several that are short a substantial number of stocks.

Do you want to make money in GameStop, AMC, and others now, short! the stock since it's high or Buy Puts.

Careful with that at the moment....
Long term for sure but the next few days it could definitely go up and down significantly

 

[Dave Hess]

So, you're already down over 10%, with the DOW at 30k + now and that was after a couple of recent down days.
When will you get back in? When it goes higher and the FOMO hits? When you've already "lost" 25% of the money you could have had, then you'll really be ready to buy in? Or if the DOW drops 10% back to 27k - will you buy then? Or think that you were right and it will keep dropping - will you buy at 26,500? 25k?
What if it never hits your magic number? What strategy do you have? Gut instinct?

Have you implemented this "strategy" in the past? Did it work? Did it not?

Hold a diversified index fund (SP500 is better than dow or nasdaq, better yet, total stock fund), and invest all the money that you can.
Savings rate is a greater predicter of future wealth than rate of return.

I'll say that again, because I hope it will sink in to everyone who reads this thread and is looking for investing "tips":
Savings rate is a greater predicter of future wealth than rate of return.

I agree with you about savings rate.

But some folks know the rate of return on some higher risk investments can supercharge the balance of their account.


.

 

[PimTac]

I agree with you about savings rate.

But some folks know the rate of return on some higher risk investments can supercharge the balance of their account.


.

It can easily go the other way as well.

Watch the precious metals tomorrow. The flash mobbers are pumping silver right now.

 

[Leo99]

Careful with that at the moment....
Long term for sure but the next few days it could definitely go up and down significantly

The reddit stategy is to buy and hold every outstanding share of GME. Longs do not have to ever sell but shorts have to buy when their positions expire.

 

[ArrestMeRedZ]

It can easily go the other way as well.

Watch the precious metals tomorrow. The flash mobbers are pumping silver right now.

Looks like they are trying with silver, but don't have the capital to make a large dent in the market. Either that, or the short sellers are countering them effectively. Silver was up a bit over 10%, but less than an hour into the trading day it's coming back down. Darn, I was hoping for a large move to the upside.

 

[Pablo]

Looks like they are trying with silver, but don't have the capital to make a large dent in the market. Either that, or the short sellers are countering them effectively. Silver was up a bit over 10%, but less than an hour into the trading day it's coming back down. Darn, I was hoping for a large move to the upside.

As I posted on the Tacoma forum, Ag as a commodity will behave differently than a stock. Although in theory the supply is limited, in trading terms, less limited than a stock. I will take profits at $30 for Ag I bought under $15

 

[PandaBear]

There is an ETF that shorts stocks, and several that are short a substantial number of stocks.

Do you want to make money in GameStop, AMC, and others now, short! the stock since it's high or Buy Puts.

You assume it does not cost interest to borrow stocks to short or borrow money to long. You also assume they do not have spikes going the opposite direction that will trigger margin call on your bet that wipe you out before they reach the long term destination.

I had a friend who lost his nest egg on a wrong bet in a spike decades ago, despite the long term target is what he predicted. He saw the margin call coming and there is nothing he could have done to avoid that.

 

[Dave Hess]

This is what my TD account says:

 

[JLawrence08648]

So the shares are not shorted you need to have the stock certificates sent to you. If they are held by the brokerage or clearing firm they can be borrowed and shorted.

 

[CleverUserName]

It can easily go the other way as well.

Watch the precious metals tomorrow. The flash mobbers are pumping silver right now.

Looks like they are trying with silver, but don't have the capital to make a large dent in the market. Either that, or the short sellers are countering them effectively. Silver was up a bit over 10%, but less than an hour into the trading day it's coming back down. Darn, I was hoping for a large move to the upside.

That's fake news. Some other "group(s)" is trying to manipulate silver, if it's even happening at all.

 

[Brybo86]

Regardless of whether WSB peeps or Melvin capital/****adel are "wrong" morally/legally.

The brokerages limiting trading on stocks that are popular at the moment is IMO.... Horrible and backwards.

Sad TDA is joining the ranks of the joke that is Robinhood.
I haven't bought any GME but I may pull my money out of their brokerage just because.


Under the guise of "protecting people" ...facepalm

Maybe they shouldn't let us buy JEEP in the future either? I mean the risk and near guarantee of financial ruin... C'mon

 

[PandaBear]

Regardless of whether WSB peeps or Melvin capital/****adel are "wrong" morally/legally.

The brokerages limiting trading on stocks that are popular at the moment is IMO.... Horrible and backwards.

Sad TDA is joining the ranks of the joke that is Robinhood.
I haven't bought any GME but I may pull my money out of their brokerage just because.


Under the guise of "protecting people" ...facepalm

Maybe they shouldn't let us buy JEEP in the future either? I mean the risk and near guarantee of financial ruin... C'mon

Well said. I give no XXXX about WSB or Melvin now. I made a quick hit and run buck of a few shares and moved on.

There is no justification to block Starbucks trade, if brokerage has problem covering it they should find capital elsewhere, and I am actually surprised that TDA has this problem as well.

I just heard on Blind that eToro is automatically adding stop loss to people's holding to "protect them". They won't even just limit you to buying more shares, they sell your shares if you have non-margin shares that went down in values. This is getting ridiculous.

 

[Wolf359]

I think you guys are getting a little bent out of shape over what you don't really understand. These are limits on options/calls/puts/margin account. Those are different than people just buying regular shares and selling them. You used to have to go through elaborate setups in order to trade on margin or do options. More regulation on those than just buying regular shares.

 

[Brybo86]

Well said. I give no XXXX about WSB or Melvin now. I made a quick hit and run buck of a few shares and moved on.

There is no justification to block Starbucks trade, if brokerage has problem covering it they should find capital elsewhere, and I am actually surprised that TDA has this problem as well.

I just heard on Blind that eToro is automatically adding stop loss to people's holding to "protect them". They won't even just limit you to buying more shares, they sell your shares if you have non-margin shares that went down in values. This is getting ridiculous.

Agreed I could see how a smaller brokerage like robinhood may have a hard time covering the interim trading capital needs but TDA.....?
With TDA Any limits placed on investors would be purely political.