still confused: what oil now in a old HiPo 440 engine from 1970?

[pastmaster]

6040,

Bravo! You are doing this right!

Just a reminder, fuel dilution into the oilsump. These bad-boys pump a bunch of fuel to make power. I presume you have a performance carburator(s), fuel pump, etc. That lighter oil will become diluted with fuel and that will leave you with what weight oil? The UOA, will determine this. A 5W-40 Synthetic HDEO=Diesel Oil, may be a good compromise considering the costs in Europe. The GC=German Castrol 0W-30, is a heavy 30wt. Almost a HDEO. You have a unique situation, but many have been through this before, too.

Good Luck! With your methodology, you will find the right oil.

 

[427Z06]

quote:

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Originally posted by pastmaster:
Just a reminder, fuel dilution into the oilsump.

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http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=42;t=004068

 

[bulwnkl]

6o4o, you're right that the theories don't say where the limit is. On the other hand, your oil temperature is nice and low while still being hot enough to boil off moisture and fuel. I would guess that if you switched to 20W50 your oil temperature will increase under the same driving conditions. There's no reason to raise oil temperature through viscosity increases, so that's not the direction you want to go, in my opinion. Trial and error will help you, but for the time and money spent I think there are easier and also better ways, as I posted above.

 

[427Z06]

quote:

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Originally posted by 6o4o:
Ok, I called my engine builder today. He said he put coated bearings in it (some anti-friction coated bearings by "Calico Coatings") and he put the clearance to around 0.002".

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Given this, the oil temps you mentioned, and the oil pressures you see, I believe any quality Xw30-Xw40 with a decent HTHS would provide all the protection the bearings would need. While synthetics aren't needed given your oil temps, the additional flow they provide at startup helps with engine life, especially if you decide on a Xw40. And it's the other parts of the engine, such as the valvetrain, pistons/rings that require high additive levels, not the bearings. GC=German Castrol 0W-30 would be great ACCEPT I don't believe enough is known how the flat-tappets would survive with the low additive levels. The 5w40 Motul synthetic with it's high additive levels would be good match, if you're willing to spend the bucks. In short, you want a thick Xw30 to thin Xw40 with good cold flow properties, and high additive levels for the valvetrain. If you were over here, I recommend a 5w40 HDEO.

In any event, getting a UOA with an Expert Interpretation is the only way you'll know for sure.

 

[6o4o]

thank you guys...

Today was a really hot day with 90F! I drove 20min 85mph, 10 times at WOT up to 100mph and then 10min city stop'n'go driving. The oil got a new record temperatur in the pan: 100C! (212F). But the idle pressure stayed the same (2.5bar (36PSI) at idle), so nothing to worry about.
I think I will keep the Kendall 5W30 (with some GM EOS) for now, do a oil test at the end of the season with this dyson analysis and then get the Motul 5W30 or 5W40 oil, let's see.

 

[427Z06]

I'm guessing you get the same oil as we do, here's the specs:

http://www.kendallmotoroil.com/NR/r...4282-AD46-9AB8AD0175C3/0/K_GT1_Full_SynMO.pdf

 

[Gary Allan]

bulwnkl's right. With your high volume pump you've created some conflicts. You need higher visc oils for valvetrain protection ..or properly additized oils ...but with your high volume flow, you peak pressure limits and aren't seeing the benefits of the increased flow.

I just went through this with my HV pump on my 4.0 jeep engine. I had to use 5w-20 weight oil to have the pump flow remain within the confines of the pressure relief limits The risk I take (not much for testing purposes) that 427Z06 pointed out to me ..is potential increased valve train wear.

With that said, I've been up against the relief in variable flow due to viscosity for 6 years and 102,000 miles and haven't had an alarming UOA ..but then again, if my engine sees over 2300 rpm it's a rare thing. I'm also in the 185-190hp league of things (feeling very small in an Eric Clapton musical way

)

 

[LargeCarMan]

Motul 5-40 It will serve you well for your application.

 

[VNT]

I have a 69 1/2 440+6 engine in a Road runner and run Amsoil 20W-50 Racing oil. Car is driven on the street and simply change it once a year. It runs fine. I would think any 10W-40 Syn or 20W-50 syn would work for you.

PS, gas must be a killer. I mix some hi Octane racing fuel in 2 gals to a tank of 93 Octane here. Lots of fun when the 6 pack kicks in

 

[KJA426]

15w-40 or HD 30 weight.

 

[6o4o]

hmm someone else also wrote that already... the HV pump DOESN'T creat higher pressure than the stock pump! The pressure relief spring is the same. It just pumps more oil IF it needs (bearing clearance to big, oil to thin), but the pressure is the same. It probably is an overkill in my engine yes, and it probably take me some extra HP, yes, but I like to know that it could pump more than I need.

The HP (High Pressure) pump is the one that creates more pressure, thus, got a stronger pressure relief.
My engine sees lots of 6300RPM (never had any problem with the sump getting dry!), but on the other side, I got all forged parts and even a girdle kit on the bottom.

thanks for the Kendall sheet, the one we get here on the swiss homepage is not that accurate! This one got much more details!

The Kendall 5W30 got HTHS of 3.0, that's pretty good huh?

I couldn't find the HTHS of the Castrol 10W60, wonder how that one is...

As said, will keep this 5W30 with some GM EOS till the end of the season and change then to Motul 5W40...

 

[Gary Allan]

6040 I like high flow oil pumps too.

Just keep in mind that the higher the visc that you're considering ..the sooner you'll be in relief ..and the lower your flow will be. You don't see excessive sump temps ..so you should figure that into your oil selection. When you're debating the difference between 10w-60 and, perhaps, some 30 weights ..that's a substantial difference.

I'd also recommend that you use the largest/longest filter that can be fitted to the engine.

[ July 18, 2006, 09:07 AM: Message edited by: Gary Allan ]

 

[6o4o]

I got right now a Purolator filter, don't know much about oil filters except I don't want an FRAM, heard to much bad stories about them!

Got back from my 3 day 1/4 racing weekend!

With big traction problems, a carburator that is running way to lean (probably damaged!), 2000feet altitude, 90F & 30-40% humidity and 4000lbs race weight I did 12.78s on the quarter mile! It was lots of fun!
The first day everyone ran out of fuel on the quarter mile because it was so hot that everyone's fuel started to cook!
On saturday & sunday everyone raced the car more or less cold, because they worried about fuel problem. I felt much more confortable with a 5W30 oil than others that used 20W50 with an oil temperatur of around 140F!