Yes
Depends on what Oil Change Interval (OCI) you plan on. If you kept it under 2500 miles, you probably could do without it if the ZDDP is really ~1000 ppm for the oil you're using.
still confused: what oil now in a old HiPo 440 engine from 1970?
- Thread starter 6o4o
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hmmm ...this could give us insight into what Euro UOA looks like. Elements change properties when they cross the Atlantic. Some gain importance ..others are cast aside..
Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil (suitable for street use) has 1300 ppm zinc listed on the product data sheet. Maybe available in Switzerland?
We need to fly Pablo out there with some Amsoil Series 3K HDD 5w30.
Perhaps you should state the ENTIRE quote next time so it reads in context: "Otherwise, on a STOCKER or MILDLY MODIFIED street block I look to a 15W-40 HDEO, or even M1 15w-50 if it's recently been resealed."
And that is the correct viscosity recommendation for THOSE engines. The stock clearance ranges are fairly fat on that engine family.
Frankly, we don't know what his builder really did here, so I gave him a range of selections based on what he ultimately learns. You drop a light 30 or 20 into a stocker 440 and it will grind itself up under heavy load (besides leaking like a slit pig if still on original gaskets and seals).
Chill dude. I didn't quote you. I just used the words in your post.
If you have the factory specs for that engine family, go ahead and post them.
Kinda' like the Pot calling the Kettle black.
The factory specs for the 440:
- Connecting Rod bearings clearance desired: 0.001"-0.0025".
- Crankshaft diametral clearance desired: 0.005"-0.002"
Where did you find this Castrol 10W60 specs? On the homepage I didn't find any spec, like on ALL the other oil companies they just write "useless" specs on the viscosity etc. of the oil, but not really what's in it.
Since I ran this car just about 2000-3000miles a year max, I do every year the oil change, so it won't see more miles before changing the oil&filter.
I really am looking to do a few oil analysis. I thought to send this stuff to the USA, should cost just about 10-15$ for the shipping and let's see what this european oil looks like!
Good would to do a test of this Castrol 10W60, the Kendall series and my used oil.
What about this http://www.blackstone-labs.com , are they any good?
But I think if I would have that big clearances with this thin oil, I wouldn't get this high oil pressure, even if it's a HV oil pump! I reved that engine maaaaaany times to 6300RPM for a few seconds and it didn't suck the pan dry, at least the oil pressure kept good!
- Connecting Rod bearings clearance desired: 0.001"-0.0025".
- Crankshaft diametral clearance desired: 0.005"-0.002"
Where did you find this Castrol 10W60 specs? On the homepage I didn't find any spec, like on ALL the other oil companies they just write "useless" specs on the viscosity etc. of the oil, but not really what's in it.
Since I ran this car just about 2000-3000miles a year max, I do every year the oil change, so it won't see more miles before changing the oil&filter.
I really am looking to do a few oil analysis. I thought to send this stuff to the USA, should cost just about 10-15$ for the shipping and let's see what this european oil looks like!
Good would to do a test of this Castrol 10W60, the Kendall series and my used oil.
What about this http://www.blackstone-labs.com , are they any good?
But I think if I would have that big clearances with this thin oil, I wouldn't get this high oil pressure, even if it's a HV oil pump! I reved that engine maaaaaany times to 6300RPM for a few seconds and it didn't suck the pan dry, at least the oil pressure kept good!
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Blackstone is a decent lab. Don't you have any over there?? It would be nice to compare two labs with samples from the same batch of oil. You may also want to do a VOA while you're enduring the shipping ..two samples probably don't cost any more to send overseas.
6040,
I am glad you have a hi-perf MOPAR! They are unique beast!
As you can see everybody has an opinion, including me.
Doing a proper oil analysis will guide you to the correct oil for your use, that's the important word, USE. If you were racing the car hard, I have used Kendall GT-1 20W-50, that I changed always, after a day of competition at the Drag Strip. The Kendall named products of today are not the same company as of past years. Conoco makes it today with many other fine motoroils. Do a search on this, lots to read.
You drive car for pleasure and car club meets, yes? Do you drive on the Autobahns of Germany, with any regularity, using those 500 horses for hours? Do drive at or faster than 180kmh. for more than a few minutes?
If you are happy with the Kendall products, stay with them. Mobil 1 and Shell Helix Ultra come to mind as well as Castrol of course. Have you considered Castrol Syntech 0W-30 or German Castrol, made in Germany, and has it's own forum, as it is known here? This a superior true synthetic oil par excellance! With your engines tighter clearances, this may be the BEST oil for your MOPAR. The Castrol 10W-60 is used in BMW M Series engines, to help with a problem they have with their lower ends at high power and rpm levels. I don't think you need this in your situation.
The oil analysis should be able to be done by Truck Dealers such as Mercedes-Benz, MAN, Volvo, Iveco, etc., or a Caterpillar Dealer or shop. They are used for service evaluations in industry. I don't think you need to mail a sample to the USA, for a UOA.
Re-read Dr. AE Haas' papers on oil viscosity. He has been running 0W-20 in his Ferrari V12 and his wife's Lamborghini Murcielago V12, too. For his uses, the lighter grade is ideal. The Doc, bought an ENZO and is using a 5W-30, until he confident the 0W-20 will do the job. We haven't heard from the good Dr. in a while and I wonder what he has determined? Anybody heard from Dr. AE Hass?
Just my idea on what will help you. You will have a weeks worth of reading if you do the searches, your knowledge of engine oils will be greatly expanded!
As you can see everybody has an opinion, including me.
Doing a proper oil analysis will guide you to the correct oil for your use, that's the important word, USE. If you were racing the car hard, I have used Kendall GT-1 20W-50, that I changed always, after a day of competition at the Drag Strip. The Kendall named products of today are not the same company as of past years. Conoco makes it today with many other fine motoroils. Do a search on this, lots to read.
You drive car for pleasure and car club meets, yes? Do you drive on the Autobahns of Germany, with any regularity, using those 500 horses for hours? Do drive at or faster than 180kmh. for more than a few minutes?
If you are happy with the Kendall products, stay with them. Mobil 1 and Shell Helix Ultra come to mind as well as Castrol of course. Have you considered Castrol Syntech 0W-30 or German Castrol, made in Germany, and has it's own forum, as it is known here? This a superior true synthetic oil par excellance! With your engines tighter clearances, this may be the BEST oil for your MOPAR. The Castrol 10W-60 is used in BMW M Series engines, to help with a problem they have with their lower ends at high power and rpm levels. I don't think you need this in your situation.
The oil analysis should be able to be done by Truck Dealers such as Mercedes-Benz, MAN, Volvo, Iveco, etc., or a Caterpillar Dealer or shop. They are used for service evaluations in industry. I don't think you need to mail a sample to the USA, for a UOA.
Re-read Dr. AE Haas' papers on oil viscosity. He has been running 0W-20 in his Ferrari V12 and his wife's Lamborghini Murcielago V12, too. For his uses, the lighter grade is ideal. The Doc, bought an ENZO and is using a 5W-30, until he confident the 0W-20 will do the job. We haven't heard from the good Dr. in a while and I wonder what he has determined? Anybody heard from Dr. AE Hass?
Just my idea on what will help you. You will have a weeks worth of reading if you do the searches, your knowledge of engine oils will be greatly expanded!
Are you guys kidding? A 500 HP 440 used for summer driving and drag racing is pretty close to an old fashioned race engine. C'mon, use Redline 10-40W. Ideal for your application. If Redline is too hard to get in europe, use Motul 10-40W. Motul is another no comprimise oil designed for "cost is no object" engines.If you want to use 10-30W or 5-30W fine, who could ever notice the difference? There is no sense trying to pinch pennies with a car as expensive as this, go for the very best. Redline or Motul.
I asked on the Mopar Forum around here, nobody knows where you can make such an analysis. Maybe a Truck Dealer knows it, but here things costs usually 10x more, so I bet it's cheaper to send this sample to the USA for a few $ and let it test it over there!
Ok, I did some googling, Redline is not known here in Europe BUT I found Motul! Looks to be a french company! I first didn't know what this Motul means on this thread, but I saw that the 300V 5W40 really has great additives like Moly, Zinc etc.! I think that would be a good oil for my engine that already got high pressure with 5W30.
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=000306#000001
I just a car seller for Subaru's that got the Motul series!! The 5W30 and 5W40 in 2liter (about 2 quarts) cans costs 15.6EUR/19$. That's ok price.
What ya guys think? Should I stick now with the 5W40 or 5W30, I really can't decide!
By the way, I just drive 140km/h (88mph) on the autobahn here, constant. Doing that the oil doesn't get hotter than 90C (194F) in the pan on a hot day!
I will race that car this coming friday, saturday & sunday on the quarter mile. This is my whole concern to have a good oil that will give the full protection to my engine!
Ok, I did some googling, Redline is not known here in Europe BUT I found Motul! Looks to be a french company! I first didn't know what this Motul means on this thread, but I saw that the 300V 5W40 really has great additives like Moly, Zinc etc.! I think that would be a good oil for my engine that already got high pressure with 5W30.
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=000306#000001
I just a car seller for Subaru's that got the Motul series!! The 5W30 and 5W40 in 2liter (about 2 quarts) cans costs 15.6EUR/19$. That's ok price.
What ya guys think? Should I stick now with the 5W40 or 5W30, I really can't decide!
By the way, I just drive 140km/h (88mph) on the autobahn here, constant. Doing that the oil doesn't get hotter than 90C (194F) in the pan on a hot day!
I will race that car this coming friday, saturday & sunday on the quarter mile. This is my whole concern to have a good oil that will give the full protection to my engine!
ops, i was wrong, the price is just for 1l/1quart!
by the way, what about this oil leaks I read on this forum on the 300V series? Will I have a problem with this 1500mile old engine?
I do have some small rear main seal leak with the 5W30, but nothing big. Many of this engines like to leak there. But if it get much worst with the 300V I don't wanna use it?
I do have some small rear main seal leak with the 5W30, but nothing big. Many of this engines like to leak there. But if it get much worst with the 300V I don't wanna use it?
Not many of my friends have heard of oil analysis either, but the ones that work with industrial machines have.
If you don't want to send your oil out of Europe you could try www.oilcheck.no
The company's site is in norwegian but you could try calling them +47 22901380 or drop them an email: [email protected]
An oil test would cost you ~ 50 Euro.
If you don't want to send your oil out of Europe you could try www.oilcheck.no
The company's site is in norwegian but you could try calling them +47 22901380 or drop them an email: [email protected]
An oil test would cost you ~ 50 Euro.
I found a company in Germany, also costs around 50EUR. In the usa it's about 1/2 the price! For that money I can send it 3x to the USA... our european prices, that's crazy...
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Ah ..the advantage of a declining U$
It isn't just valuta... Everything car related is very expensive here.. well, really everything is expensive here.
I buy all car pars I can find from USA, to my German car aswell (OEM parts that is).. Prices are often 1/3 including shipment and taxes..
I buy all car pars I can find from USA, to my German car aswell (OEM parts that is).. Prices are often 1/3 including shipment and taxes..
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Thank you for your continued support from a grateful and needy nation
6o4o, I disagree very strongly with almost every recommendation you've received in this thread about what viscosity grade you should choose. It astounds me to see some of the people here making some of the recommendations they have given the information you provided in your first post.
If you can get your oil sample into the USA and have it analyzed, that's the thing to do. Nevertheless, if you see 65psi hot at all engine speeds above 1800 rpm with 5W30 oil, DO NOT USE AN xW40, xW50, or xW60 OIL! You'll actually get LESS oil flow to the engine that way. You read about why and how in those postings by AEHaas.
Again, get the UOA done and then I would suggest you consider the services of Dyson Analysis, a site sponsor here, to assist you with interpreting the results. Even after sending the sample to the USA and paying for a Dyson premium package, it will still be cheaper than an analysis in Europe (50 Euros!? You must be kidding!).
Best of luck and keep that lovely Mopar running strong.
If you can get your oil sample into the USA and have it analyzed, that's the thing to do. Nevertheless, if you see 65psi hot at all engine speeds above 1800 rpm with 5W30 oil, DO NOT USE AN xW40, xW50, or xW60 OIL! You'll actually get LESS oil flow to the engine that way. You read about why and how in those postings by AEHaas.
Again, get the UOA done and then I would suggest you consider the services of Dyson Analysis, a site sponsor here, to assist you with interpreting the results. Even after sending the sample to the USA and paying for a Dyson premium package, it will still be cheaper than an analysis in Europe (50 Euros!? You must be kidding!).
Best of luck and keep that lovely Mopar running strong.
Ok, I called my engine builder today. He said he put coated bearings in it (some anti-friction coated bearings by "Calico Coatings") and he put the clearance to around 0.002".
That's what I am thinking! I mean, when reading Dr. Haas his text (I read it all) I shouldn't go to a thicker oil since I got such a high pressure already, but I heard now other opinions.. it's just very confusing!
BUT Dr. Haas didn't write where the limit is, I mean, I couldn't run a 0W10 in my 440, even if that HV pump could pump it fast enough to get the appropiate pressure, could it? And also this 10W30 will get at some temperatur so liquid, that the oil film will get destroyed and then good bye bearing, isn't it like that?
By the way, checked again today, oil temp when driving was at 80* Celcius 176F, as stated above, it never got above 195F. I checked today with a temp sensor with a long wire on it, put it in the dip stick tube and put it down to the oil. The sensor is on the bottom of the pan.
The gauge in the car showed 176F, the sensor I put in the dipstick tube showed 180F and when I pushed it in further into the pan it showed 186F. Not exactly 176F but pretty close, so I think my gauge is reading right and this car's oil never gets very hot, although no idea why!?
That's what I am thinking! I mean, when reading Dr. Haas his text (I read it all) I shouldn't go to a thicker oil since I got such a high pressure already, but I heard now other opinions.. it's just very confusing!
BUT Dr. Haas didn't write where the limit is, I mean, I couldn't run a 0W10 in my 440, even if that HV pump could pump it fast enough to get the appropiate pressure, could it? And also this 10W30 will get at some temperatur so liquid, that the oil film will get destroyed and then good bye bearing, isn't it like that?
By the way, checked again today, oil temp when driving was at 80* Celcius 176F, as stated above, it never got above 195F. I checked today with a temp sensor with a long wire on it, put it in the dip stick tube and put it down to the oil. The sensor is on the bottom of the pan.
The gauge in the car showed 176F, the sensor I put in the dipstick tube showed 180F and when I pushed it in further into the pan it showed 186F. Not exactly 176F but pretty close, so I think my gauge is reading right and this car's oil never gets very hot, although no idea why!?
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