Starting ARX - Posting to purge soulful doubts.
- Thread starter Flashlightboy
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Bruce T and the others are right. One quart in 5k miles is nothing to worry about. It may be true that some Hondas, and other cars for that matter, burn no oil in 5k miles. But that is probably the exception. I know a few owners of older Hondas that burn oil. Maybe you need to try a heavier oil than 5W-30, in your climate.
But you are on the right track with the AR-X treatment. But it will not stop the lifter tick within 16 miles, or, by tomorrow either! The clean phase is for 1500 miles, and some people dont notice an improvement until after that, in the rinse phase. Leave it in the recommended time, and post any improvements. Good luck.
But you are on the right track with the AR-X treatment. But it will not stop the lifter tick within 16 miles, or, by tomorrow either! The clean phase is for 1500 miles, and some people dont notice an improvement until after that, in the rinse phase. Leave it in the recommended time, and post any improvements. Good luck.
undummy,
It's from FoMoCo following the original engine deciding that it didn't need a harmonic balancer anymore.
It was probably the balancer deciding that the engine was evil and it decided to make an escape much like the left eye on Shannon Doherty. No really, it's true.
[ August 11, 2004, 04:34 PM: Message edited by: Flashlightboy ]
It's from FoMoCo following the original engine deciding that it didn't need a harmonic balancer anymore.
It was probably the balancer deciding that the engine was evil and it decided to make an escape much like the left eye on Shannon Doherty. No really, it's true.
[ August 11, 2004, 04:34 PM: Message edited by: Flashlightboy ]
For grits and shiggles, try another brand of oil filter. I've seen lots of Ford products that have valve train noise in the morning and running a different filter (Wix, Hastings, Baldwin) took care of it.
Also, if the lifters were replaced with an aftermarket brand, it's quite possible that it's just going to be the nature of the beast. My buddy just had his '94 SBC rebuilt and new Clevite lifters installed, and it's got a light tick after sitting for a while. Schaeffer's Supreme 7000 oil helped considerably over his previous regimen of Goodwrench oil (whatever that is) with a can of GM Engine Oil Supplement, but it's still slightly there.
Also, if the lifters were replaced with an aftermarket brand, it's quite possible that it's just going to be the nature of the beast. My buddy just had his '94 SBC rebuilt and new Clevite lifters installed, and it's got a light tick after sitting for a while. Schaeffer's Supreme 7000 oil helped considerably over his previous regimen of Goodwrench oil (whatever that is) with a can of GM Engine Oil Supplement, but it's still slightly there.
I'd like to escape with Shannon Doherty!
Flashlightboy -
You have been using a quality full synthetic oil and an excellent (#2 rated) oil filter with 5,000 mile changes. Why on earth would you suspect the valve train or lifters are dirty? Seems to me that while it is "possible" for them to be dirty it is highly "improbable".
Most car makers tell you that consuming a quart of oil in 1,000 miles is acceptable. I think they are really tring to avoid having to fix engines.
That said, consuming one quart of oil in 5,000 miles is not a "problem" at all, in fact it may be close to "perfect".
Think about it. You have valves going up and down through the guides and you have piston rings "wiping" the cylinder walls of oil.
In order for the valve guides and cylinder walls to be fully lubricated "some" oil has to get to the top of each and get consumed.
If you ran 5,000 miles at 60 MPH then it took you 5,000 minutes to travel that far. At 2000 RPM to go 60 MPH it would require 10,000,000 revolutions to travel that far. In the real world you would turn many more revolutions to travel 5,000 miles.
How "tight" do you want your engine to be? Looks to me like you are consuming some minuscule portion of a drop of oil per 1000 revolutions. 32 ounces of oil over 10,000,000 revolutons is 0.0032 ounces of oil per 1000 revolutions. I doubt I could see .0032 ounces of oil.
Looks like a good rebuild to me.
You have been using a quality full synthetic oil and an excellent (#2 rated) oil filter with 5,000 mile changes. Why on earth would you suspect the valve train or lifters are dirty? Seems to me that while it is "possible" for them to be dirty it is highly "improbable".
Most car makers tell you that consuming a quart of oil in 1,000 miles is acceptable. I think they are really tring to avoid having to fix engines.
That said, consuming one quart of oil in 5,000 miles is not a "problem" at all, in fact it may be close to "perfect".
Think about it. You have valves going up and down through the guides and you have piston rings "wiping" the cylinder walls of oil.
In order for the valve guides and cylinder walls to be fully lubricated "some" oil has to get to the top of each and get consumed.
If you ran 5,000 miles at 60 MPH then it took you 5,000 minutes to travel that far. At 2000 RPM to go 60 MPH it would require 10,000,000 revolutions to travel that far. In the real world you would turn many more revolutions to travel 5,000 miles.
How "tight" do you want your engine to be? Looks to me like you are consuming some minuscule portion of a drop of oil per 1000 revolutions. 32 ounces of oil over 10,000,000 revolutons is 0.0032 ounces of oil per 1000 revolutions. I doubt I could see .0032 ounces of oil.
Looks like a good rebuild to me.
Ugly3, thanks for the cool math.
Ugly,
That's some ugly math you got going there and my eyes sort of glazed over after you started doing the 22 divided by 7 thing.
What you're saying makes sense but I long for the older days when the original engine burned 1/2 quart every 5k. Hondas generally can do it so why can't the others.
To a degree I think that the qt/5k point is a way of lowering customer expectations to make up for sloppy tolerances.
That's some ugly math you got going there and my eyes sort of glazed over after you started doing the 22 divided by 7 thing.
What you're saying makes sense but I long for the older days when the original engine burned 1/2 quart every 5k. Hondas generally can do it so why can't the others.
To a degree I think that the qt/5k point is a way of lowering customer expectations to make up for sloppy tolerances.
Tomorrow I'll be at 1,500 miles and so I'll laying on cold concrete in the morning after an oil warming trip to Starbucks.
Yup, I'm into the ARX binge and purge cycle. Frank tells me that I should binge and purge often although it sounds unhealthy.
I'm going to save the filter and offer it's innards for science although I'm not sure what I'm looking for. Now if this was Biology class and a frog I'd be looking for some groady cooties and bugs.
Yup, I'm into the ARX binge and purge cycle. Frank tells me that I should binge and purge often although it sounds unhealthy.
I'm going to save the filter and offer it's innards for science although I'm not sure what I'm looking for. Now if this was Biology class and a frog I'd be looking for some groady cooties and bugs.
Alrighty, I changed out the cleaning oil (GC) and it didn't look any dirtier than normal.
I cut the filter open {PureOne} and I didn't find any gunk or crud that was even remotely similar to what others have posted but in all fairness, this engine only had 45k on it when I started the cleaning cycle and the oil following break in was either M1 or GC.
Since the filter wasn't gunked up I'm going to run only a 2k cleaning phase and we'll where that takes me.
I cut the filter open {PureOne} and I didn't find any gunk or crud that was even remotely similar to what others have posted but in all fairness, this engine only had 45k on it when I started the cleaning cycle and the oil following break in was either M1 or GC.
Since the filter wasn't gunked up I'm going to run only a 2k cleaning phase and we'll where that takes me.
I finished with my 2k rinse cycle today and swapped the Castrol GTX 5W-30 and the PureOne for M1 5W-30 and the M1 filter.
I cut open the filter just like I did after the cleaning cycle and with a white latex glove I spread each of the pleats and randomly wiped some. No gunk or crude. Just media with oil.
A little look into the fill hole with a flashlight (duh!) showed a very clean upper engine but I can't honestly tell if it's cleaner than when I started. Remember that this engine has had a steady diet of M1 and GC every 5k. Perhaps it's my imagination but it now looks awfully clean.
Would I say that A-RX is a failure? No, I won't. I started off with a clean engine but had an oil consumption issue of 1 qt every 5k which developed over time.
During the cleaning phase I checked and was using oil but during the rinse phase the consumption was very minimal. If this is due to A-RX then I'm happy. I still have a slight ticking every other day or so but it only lasts until the pressure comes up but it is less frequent than before.
I'm not giving up on A-RX because I've seen how it works. I have 2 bottles in my garage and I run the maintenance dose in both of my cars.
I'll post again if my consumption changes one way or the other.
I cut open the filter just like I did after the cleaning cycle and with a white latex glove I spread each of the pleats and randomly wiped some. No gunk or crude. Just media with oil.
A little look into the fill hole with a flashlight (duh!) showed a very clean upper engine but I can't honestly tell if it's cleaner than when I started. Remember that this engine has had a steady diet of M1 and GC every 5k. Perhaps it's my imagination but it now looks awfully clean.
Would I say that A-RX is a failure? No, I won't. I started off with a clean engine but had an oil consumption issue of 1 qt every 5k which developed over time.
During the cleaning phase I checked and was using oil but during the rinse phase the consumption was very minimal. If this is due to A-RX then I'm happy. I still have a slight ticking every other day or so but it only lasts until the pressure comes up but it is less frequent than before.
I'm not giving up on A-RX because I've seen how it works. I have 2 bottles in my garage and I run the maintenance dose in both of my cars.
I'll post again if my consumption changes one way or the other.
JHZR2
Staff member
how many miles were on your engine before it had to be rebuilt? Why was it rebuilt?
As far as Im concerned, and engine with 45k shouldnt have those problems, especially running on the oil and filter thaty youre using. Maybe its your driving style or loading? Do you pull real heavy trailers or something?
The tick sounds to me like a faulty antidrainback valve or overrestrictive filter. I got a similar thing on my chevy 4.3L v6 when I used a fram onetime. AC delco filters made it go away.
I highly doubt the tick is due to any gunk built up, etc. Are you sire it has been for the past 20k miles vs the last 15k which youve had GC in there? Are you sure its done it on both GC AND M1?
I think your filter supply is highly suspect. I would suggest trying another brand, even as a mid-interval oil change, and see if it helps it. Youll know better doing it now, as the temp is getting lower, so the cold oil will flow less, and have a higher probability of bringing noises out.
JMH
As far as Im concerned, and engine with 45k shouldnt have those problems, especially running on the oil and filter thaty youre using. Maybe its your driving style or loading? Do you pull real heavy trailers or something?
The tick sounds to me like a faulty antidrainback valve or overrestrictive filter. I got a similar thing on my chevy 4.3L v6 when I used a fram onetime. AC delco filters made it go away.
I highly doubt the tick is due to any gunk built up, etc. Are you sire it has been for the past 20k miles vs the last 15k which youve had GC in there? Are you sure its done it on both GC AND M1?
I think your filter supply is highly suspect. I would suggest trying another brand, even as a mid-interval oil change, and see if it helps it. Youll know better doing it now, as the temp is getting lower, so the cold oil will flow less, and have a higher probability of bringing noises out.
JMH
JHZR2
Staff member
Also, I believe that GTX is good with regards to shear stability and volitilization. Maybe its just a better fit for your engine. You might want to check UOAs to see for your engine if syn vs dino oil provides better results, etc.
I am convinced that in my v6, dino gives lower wear numbers, and thus works better!
JMH
I am convinced that in my v6, dino gives lower wear numbers, and thus works better!
JMH
JH,
It's a Ford reman engine - original crank snapped while backing out of my driveway.
I don't race or do anything other than drive to and from work. This is 85% freeway. It's bone stock and ergo and a performance pig.
I've used the M1 and PureOne filters and it's all about the same.
It's a Ford reman engine - original crank snapped while backing out of my driveway.
I don't race or do anything other than drive to and from work. This is 85% freeway. It's bone stock and ergo and a performance pig.
I've used the M1 and PureOne filters and it's all about the same.
Hey Flashlightboy. Just out of curiosity, would you be related to Canteen Boy from SNL?
It's been about 1,500 miles since I completed my rinse cycle and refilled with M1, M1 filter and 2oz of ARX.
I am very happy to report that my oil consumption is excellent!!! I used to use about a quarter of quart at this interval and now, it still reads full but because it was "overfilled" by a few ounces of ARX I'm extrapolating that I'm burning 8 ounces every 5k.
Before ARX: 1 quart every 5k.
After ARX: 8 ounces every 5k.
BTW, the startup tick is almost nonexistent and this is the same filter that made noise before ARX.
Going into this I didn't think that ARX would do much for my engine because I've always been using syn oil and M1/PureOne filters. I can't argue with the loss of startup tick and decreased oil consumption because the objective findings are hard to dispute.
I'll post again when I near my 5k oil change.
I am very happy to report that my oil consumption is excellent!!! I used to use about a quarter of quart at this interval and now, it still reads full but because it was "overfilled" by a few ounces of ARX I'm extrapolating that I'm burning 8 ounces every 5k.
Before ARX: 1 quart every 5k.
After ARX: 8 ounces every 5k.
BTW, the startup tick is almost nonexistent and this is the same filter that made noise before ARX.
Going into this I didn't think that ARX would do much for my engine because I've always been using syn oil and M1/PureOne filters. I can't argue with the loss of startup tick and decreased oil consumption because the objective findings are hard to dispute.
I'll post again when I near my 5k oil change.
Gary,
Canteen Boy is a distant cousin but we don't talk about him much. He's disturbed and sits by himself at the little table.
Canteen Boy is a distant cousin but we don't talk about him much. He's disturbed and sits by himself at the little table.
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