ST3600 cut open

Brian Miller_dup1 · Mar 1, 2005

Well, I bought a SuperTech 3600 to cut open. After all it was only $2.07.

I wasn't impressed with the quality control. Very tight pleats on one side.

Very wide pleats on the other side.

The end caps weren't nylon like everyone is saying. They are this fake, felt like material. It was very easy to pull them off the filter media

Some close-ups of the end caps.

Bottom line, I wouldn't use these on my truck.

Topic - cheap, poorly made filters, talk amongst yourselves.

Brian

seotaji · Mar 1, 2005

whoa that's wierd man.

good thing i don't use those particular filters

Thomas Pyrek · Mar 1, 2005

that baseplate doesn't look like a Champion filter...

427Z06 · Mar 1, 2005

That filter is the new Champion Lab's Ecore design. Looks like they were finally forced to substantially lower quality if they wanted to compete with FRAM. What a shame.

jthorner · Mar 1, 2005

quote:

that baseplate doesn't look like a Champion filter...

This is Champion's new "Ecore" product line and that is indeed what they look like. You can see Champion Labs' marketing fluff piece on Ecore at:

http://www.champlabs.com/ECOREBROCHURE.pdf

Now we know what Champion means by non-metalic end caps. They should call them non-existent endcaps.

IMO this filter is in no way structurally superior to the much maligned Frams.

Don't you wonder how accurate the bypass pressure can possibly be when it is controlled by a rubber flap? Isn't that flap going to have big changes in it's spring constant with both temperature and age.

Not for me!

John

1kickbuttranger · Mar 1, 2005

Thanks for the info...

Go Motorcraft FL400s!!!!

Bryanccfshr · Mar 1, 2005

I am certainly happy that I can still get the old style with the 3950. I expected more out of the endcaps. If they had done a better job in that regard I would probably not be as dissapointed.

427Z06 · Mar 1, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by jthorner:
Now we know what Champion means by non-metalic end caps. They should call them non-existent endcaps.

IMO this filter is in no way structurally superior to the much maligned Frams.

Don't you wonder how accurate the bypass pressure can possibly be when it is controlled by a rubber flap? Isn't that flap going to have big changes in it's spring constant with both temperature and age.

Let's hope they don't convince Mobil and K&N to change to this new Ecore crap.

jthorner · Mar 1, 2005

quote:

Let's hope they don't convince Mobil and K&N to change to this new Ecore crap

So far the Bosch Premiums I have seen have not been of the Ecore variety.

I doubt we will see Ecore in any but the very lowest priced filters. Ecore is all about cost.

I like the new Nylon center tube ... seems like a perfectly reasonable idea. The BS end caps and rubber bypass flap (you cannot really even call it a valve!) are most unimpressive.

John

Alan · Mar 1, 2005

I don't see what is so bad about this filter.
What are the chances of the felt caps pulling of the medium in the can during use?

Probably not very likely.

Looks like a high flow design.

FowVay · Mar 1, 2005

The filter itself looks remarkably similar to the Mahle OEM filter that Volkswagen sells (a cartridge style, no metal housing). However, I must say that I have run the Mahle for 10,000 mile drain intervals and never had a problem with them at all. I have even had difficulty cutting the felt end caps away from the filter media for inspection.

Obviously, the end caps in this filter aren't as secure nor is the felt as strong. I'd like to see numerous E-core filters after 7500 mile drains to determind if they're going to be problematic.

labman · Mar 1, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by Alan:
I don't see what is so bad about this filter.
What are the chances of the felt caps pulling of the medium in the can during use?

Probably not very likely.

Looks like a high flow design.

It is new and different. It is not expensive. That is all some people need to dismiss it. The end caps pull away? In use, the oil pressure is pushing on the end caps. I trust a paper to felt glue joint more than a paper to metal joint.

JHZR2 · Mar 1, 2005

I dont see why companies cant just go to a HD glued paper/composite end cap on either end. The MANN filters for my 91 BMW 318i and my father's 96 MB E300D have them, and they seem fine. There is no actual end cap with them, but the entire top and bottom ends are this very hard substance, seemingly paper/glue based. It is not breakable, bendable, foldable, etc., and it integrates the ends of the filter media pleats into it. Maybe I can get a picture up, if I have one left.

Seems like a good way to cut costs and number of materials/parts to make a filter, while maintaining rigidity and strength.

FYI, I think mann is the only filter maker doing this. The equivalent Hangst and Mahle filters for the applications still have the media attached to metal end plates, and a perforated paper wrapper around the middle of the filter.

JMH

JHZR2 · Mar 1, 2005

In fact, here are some good pics (taken from the www.mercedesshop.com online 'fastlane' catalog, by worldpac, I believe). These are for BMW filters.

MANN:

Mahle:

The ones for my father's MB look almost identical, just double the length.

The one for my 83 MB is the best: small full flow element, and a very big cotton type bypass filter built in. Still had more soot in the oil per 3000 mi than my father's diesel without any bypass (different engine designs, same displacement).

JMH

pajim17057 · Mar 1, 2005

Clearly, the champ ecore is not in the same class as mann. I guess wally world now will have no good filters at all. Now that they are dumping motorcraft.

jsharp · Mar 1, 2005

I'm not impressed with the felt endcaps or the assembly quality. Somehow, I think if this were a Fram design people would be trashing it.

I'll stick to Motorcraft, Purolator and Wix myself...

Colt · Mar 1, 2005

That Super Tech filter is almost as bad as the cheapo Group 7 oil filters some quick change places throw on.

Filter guy · Mar 1, 2005

Cool pics. The ST3600 is what I use on my car and get 9,000 miles with it using Mobil 1 oil and oil analysis. Never had a problem.

First, the "wide" pleats in the third picture is nothing more than where Champ glues the two ends of the pleats together to form a continous seal the length of the element so there is no bypassing of oil through the seam. You generally get the type of spacing you see where that happens. As your other pictures show uniform pleat spacing everywhere else.

As for endcaps..

..please define their function within an element? I'd be interested in seeing the responce to this..

T-Keith · Mar 1, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by Filter guy:
Cool pics. The ST3600 is what I use on my car and
As for endcaps..

..please define their function within an element? I'd be interested in seeing the responce to this..

Endcaps are used as a gluing surface to hold the media together and square. Sometimes they are used for other things such as sealing an ADBV or spring. In this filter it is not, both eh ADBV and spring actually fit into the center tube. They can do this because the center tube of the E-core is much stronger then a typical center tube.

I don't see a major problem with the endcaps as long as the material doesn't degrade. Even then it should be caught by the media. Now Fram is a whole different story. The E-core's quality is 10 times better.

Filter guy, can you find out if they are going to "e-core" the 3387 size? I'd like to cut one apart in that size, but they don't seem to have switched yet.

BTW for those who want to quickly spot an E-core ST there is a multicolored rectangle on the bottom of the box.

-T

labman · Mar 2, 2005

''I'm not impressed with the felt endcaps or the assembly quality. Somehow, I think if this were a Fram design people would be trashing it.'' jsharp

I agree some would. Put a $10 price on it or a made in Germany label and some would swoon over it.

'' That Super Tech filter is almost as bad as the cheapo Group 7 oil filters some quick change places throw on.'' Colt

Do you have pictures of one cut open? How does the amount of filter area compare?

''First, the "wide" pleats in the third picture is nothing more than where Champ glues the two ends of the pleats together to form a continous seal the length of the element so there is no bypassing of oil through the seam. You generally get the type of spacing you see where that happens. As your other pictures show uniform pleat spacing everywhere else.'' Filter Guy

Like I said.

''BTW for those who want to quickly spot an E-core ST there is a multicolored rectangle on the bottom of the box.'' T-Keith

Good detail, useful to all.

ST3600 cut open

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