Springfield Armory XD-E New DA/SA sub compact gun

[901Memphis]

Originally Posted By: Al
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis


Nope they're making a comeback!

Just bc its making a comeback doesn't mean it makes sense to buy one. In a SD firearm IO want every shot to be the same. To each his own.


I don't want one either, just sharing interesting news. I can't afford lots of guns and the XD-E is too close to what my shield does to justify buying another single stack subcompact.

 

[JDM396]

Originally Posted By: billt460
I don't like the XD because I don't like the gun. I don't allow politics to dictate what type of guns I buy. Many times it's just plain stupid. For example, you still have people who won't buy a Smith & Wesson because of the whole Clinton / Ed Shultz deal that never materialized. Or won't buy a Ruger to this very day, because of Bill Ruger's comments regarding Hi-Capacity magazines. Forget the fact the man has been dead for the last 15 years. Or the fact there is no one left employed by that company with the last name of Ruger any longer.


It's not stupid, some just might have more conviction than you when it comes to gun rights. Under the current management and for the forseeable future I won't be buying any of their firearms, and will likely sell the ones I have.

When it comes to 2A rights, I don't compromise, and there's just too many good firearms choices out there.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: JDM396
When it comes to 2A rights, I don't compromise, and there's just too many good firearms choices out there.


Gun companies are not trying to take away your gun rights. Not buying a gun today because you don't like it, is one thing. Not buying a Ruger today, because of something a dead man said over 15 years ago, or a S&W because of what 2 then Presidents agreed to, who are no longer in power, that never even happened....... IS STUPID. If you like the idea of boycotting companies, there are plenty out there who deserve it. And who are doing more damage to your gun rights politically, as well as financially, than any firearm manufacturer could ever hope to.

 

[JDM396]

Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: JDM396
When it comes to 2A rights, I don't compromise, and there's just too many good firearms choices out there.


Gun companies are not trying to take away your gun rights. Not buying a gun today because you don't like it, is one thing. Not buying a Ruger today, because of something a dead man said over 15 years ago, or a S&W because of what 2 then Presidents agreed to, who are no longer in power, that never even happened....... IS STUPID. If you like the idea of boycotting companies, there are plenty out there who deserve it. And who are doing more damage to your gun rights politically, as well as financially, than any firearm manufacturer could ever hope to.


Stay on subject. I'm not talking about Ruger or S&W... I'm talking about this situation and Springfield. You either have conviction with your 2A rights or you don't. Every situation is different. If you feel this one is stupid, bless your heart.

 

[SKVenture]

What an awful looking firearm.

I have never been a fan of the XD line.

I bought a XDs .45 due to its size and price. But never fell in love with its feel in hand, trigger, or performance.

This "new" gun brings absolutely NOTHING new to the small gun segment. It's purely a "me too" product.

if I want a DA/SA hammer fired semi-auto, I'll buy (which I have) a Sig.

Side note: the fact they put the words "Grip Zone" on the handle leads me to believe that they have 20 something year old marketing graduates with zero insight in the firearm industry leading springfield's development.

What a shame. The absolute last thing the industry needed or wanted is what Springfield so proudly displays at the NRA convention. This was a missed opportunity to actually innovate and it is just one more nail in the coffin for a company that has zero ideas.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: JDM396
Stay on subject.......You either have conviction with your 2A rights or you don't.......


It's not that simple. Both Springfield and Rock River Arms are trying to operate in an extreme anti gun political climate in the state of Illinois. This, while gun sales are plummeting, in one of the biggest gun gluts in recent times. Their very existence is on the line in that state. They have to do whatever they can to stay alive. It may not be economically viable, or even possible for either of them to move their manufacturing facilities from Illinois to somewhere else. Much like Les Baer Custom did when they moved from Illinois to Le Claire, Iowa. Or Mag-Pul Industries did when the anti gun climate became overbearing in Colorado. Prompting them to move to Texas.

So these companies like Springfield and Rock River do whatever they possibly can in order to stay in business at their present location. They're not doing this to hurt their customers...... Or your gun rights. They are doing it because it is likely their last option. Gun manufacturers do not have deep pockets like the auto or tobacco industry. If you took all of the gun manufacturers in the United States, their combined yearly revenue would not equal what Toys-R-Us does at Christmas time. Most just can't pack up and move at the first hint of political trouble. Look at how anti gun politics has decimated the factories in "Gun Valley", in the eastern anti gun states.

For most firearm manufacturers, gun politics isn't as simple as, "You either have a conviction, or you don't". For example, remember when the NRA supported Harry Reid? That was smart, because it prevented the Assault Weapons Ban from ever coming up for a vote in the Senate. If it had it could have easily passed. And Obama most certainly would have signed it. But that didn't stop a lot of ignorant NRA members from screaming how the NRA was "caving in". Of course it was total nonsense. But that's what happens when people base their positions on a single magazine article. Instead of understanding the full scope of what's going on. Sometimes "a deal with the devil" has to be made.

It's good to have strong 2nd Amendment convictions. I couldn't support you more in that endeavor. But it's also good to know all of the facts BEFORE you try to damage the company in question with a boycott. And let's at least be honest. Suppose your boycott is so successful, you manage to help run Rock River Arms out of business. Would that be something to cheer about?

 

[JDM396]

Sorry, I'm not seeing where they will ultimately demise from pulling their opposition to this bill. If they didn't see the downturn coming, they should've prepared. We've gone through god knows how many rollercoasters over the last few decades and it's not like Illinois was anti-gun overnight. Do I care if Springfield or RRA goes under? After contributing to erosion of 2A rights? Nope. Is that likely to happen? Nope. What they did is give themselves bad press in a downturn, something that is logistically stupid as a business. If they fail because of this, that's on them. There are 91839138 other companies making ARs, polymer handguns or 1911s.

How many gun manufacturers have moved over the last 8 years? Quite a few. Springfield is a successful company with a lot of employees and I'll betcha several states would love to have them. So, I don't want to hear a pity party about how they can't move or didn't know the pressures of doing business in Illinois. That's just not a good enough excuse to allow an erosion of gun rights for me.

Maybe it's best to know all the facts before you apologize for them?

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: JDM396
Maybe it's best to know all the facts before you apologize for them?


Or start with boycotts.

 

[JDM396]

Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: JDM396
Maybe it's best to know all the facts before you apologize for them?


Or start with boycotts.


Sorry, it's my money. I have enough information to make a logical decision to do so, you do as you please.

I wouldn't worry about "me" starting a boycott, I'd say that's already started, going by the nasty comments they are getting on their FB page.

 

[Doog]

I just bought a XD Mod 2 9mm 3" and it is excellent. 13 & 16 round mags and superior ergonomics make it a really nice carry gun.

 

[901Memphis]

Can someone explain the Illinois issue with Springfield? I read the article and I don't get what all the boycotting is about?

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: Doog
I just bought a XD Mod 2 9mm 3" and it is excellent.


Good for you! Looks like you just made up for JDM's "boycott".

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Can someone explain the Illinois issue with Springfield? I read the article and I don't get what all the boycotting is about?


From what I'm reading, the bill that just was passed requires Illinois Federal FFL holders to now also purchase a separate Illinois state firearms license. If they don't they'll be restricted to just 9 firearm transfers a year. Manufacturers are the exception. The lobbyist for the manufacturers didn't resist the bill, in return for manufacturers being exempt from it. The lobbyist received $100K from both Springfield, and Rock River Arms. ($50K each). I'm not seeing anything worthy of jumping on any boycott bandwagon over it. Simply because there is no guarantee the bill would not have passed even if both Springfield and RRA opposed it, and not given anyone a dime.

 

[901Memphis]

I still don't see the big deal, unless the license costs a lot of money. There's no way we have enough information to know what's going on behind closed doors between the lobbyists, politicians and gun manufacturers to speculate.

 

[ZeeOSix]

I'd like to see the states lose the power to make more restrictive gun laws than the federal laws. Even some cities try to impose their own gun laws that are even more restrictive. The way things are going, each state will eventually become it's own independent "country" ... kind of that way now, but I see it getting even worse with time.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
I still don't see the big deal, unless the license costs a lot of money. There's no way we have enough information to know what's going on behind closed doors between the lobbyists, politicians and gun manufacturers to speculate.


This is all about the dollar, plain and simple. Illinois is drowning in a sea of debt. They will bite the line on anything that will add money to the state coffers. There aren't that many gun manufacturers in the state. With the exception of Rock River Arms in Colona, and Springfield in Geneseo, I can't think of any. In fact the 2 brothers who started Rock River Arms, (Mark and Charles Larson), used to work for Springfield Armory back in the 80's. They then partnered with Les Baer, and help found Les Baer Custom. Which was also located in Illinois, but moved to Iowa a few years back.

And you can bet if they, (the state of Illinois), were willing to exempt manufacturers for $100K, (minus what the lobbyist got), there couldn't have been that many of them. What they lost in license fees from the manufacturers, they'll more than make up for in FFL holders throughout Illinois. The bottom line is this is much to do about nothing. Greasing Illinois politicians is a businessman's way of life there.

 

[bubbatime]

Originally Posted By: SKVenture
This "new" gun brings absolutely NOTHING new to the small gun segment. It's purely a "me too" product.

if I want a DA/SA hammer fired semi-auto, I'll buy (which I have) a Sig.


Try and find a hammer fired, semi auto, that is as small and weighs as little as this one does. If you are a hammer fired fan, the gun has merit.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
I'd like to see the states lose the power to make more restrictive gun laws than the federal laws. Even some cities try to impose their own gun laws that are even more restrictive. The way things are going, each state will eventually become it's own independent "country" ... kind of that way now, but I see it getting even worse with time.


I agree. As it stands now, states can make Federal laws more restrictive, but not less. And Federal law always supersedes state law....... Except when it comes to Marijuana and illegal immigration. Thus far the states have pretty much gotten away with whatever they want on those 2 issues.

 

[EdwardC]

billt460, I agree that this is all about the state trying to get more money. Here in Cook County, we already have a firearm and ammo tax. Every firearm sold in Cook County has a $25 tax added to it, every centerfire round has a $0.05 tax and every rimfire round has a $0.01 tax. My box of 50 9mm round costs $2.50 more than in the county next door.

That's on top of a high sales tax rate (10.25% in Chicago: 6.25% state, 1.75% county, 1.25% Chicago, 1% special).

Oh, also, I don't think the bill is a law yet, it just made it through the House, but still needs to go through the Senate and get signed by Governor Rauner.

 

[901Memphis]

I did some more research on it and it seems a lot of people are more upset because it hurts small business gun shops more than the big box stores.