Springfield Armory XD-E New DA/SA sub compact gun

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: EdwardC
billt460, I agree that this is all about the state trying to get more money. Here in Cook County, we already have a firearm and ammo tax. Every firearm sold in Cook County has a $25 tax added to it, every centerfire round has a $0.05 tax and every rimfire round has a $0.01 tax. My box of 50 9mm round costs $2.50 more than in the county next door.

That's on top of a high sales tax rate (10.25% in Chicago: 6.25% state, 1.75% county, 1.25% Chicago, 1% special).

Oh, also, I don't think the bill is a law yet, it just made it through the House, but still needs to go through the Senate and get signed by Governor Rauner.


What's funny is it isn't going to matter how much they raise from it, it will never be enough. Property tax rates in Cook, Lake, and Dupage County are already through the roof, with many homes paying into 5 digits a year. And even with all of that money they can't keep themselves above water. That state is taxed to death, with no end in sight. No matter what they take in, they'll always spend more.

 

[KD0AXS]

Originally Posted By: Doog
I just bought a XD Mod 2 9mm 3" and it is excellent. 13 & 16 round mags and superior ergonomics make it a really nice carry gun.


I have the same gun. It really is a great carry gun, I don't leave home without it.

If you haven't already, don't forget to get your free stuff.

https://www.springfieldpromo.com

Also, I looked and the new XD-E does qualify for this promotion as well.

 

[SKVenture]

Originally Posted By: bubbatime
Originally Posted By: SKVenture
This "new" gun brings absolutely NOTHING new to the small gun segment. It's purely a "me too" product.

if I want a DA/SA hammer fired semi-auto, I'll buy (which I have) a Sig.


Try and find a hammer fired, semi auto, that is as small and weighs as little as this one does. If you are a hammer fired fan, the gun has merit.


https://www.sigsauer.com/store/p239-nitron-compact.html

https://www.sigsauer.com/store/p938-brg-micro-compact.html

http://www.beretta.com/en-us/px4-storm-subcompact/

http://hk-usa.com/hk-models/p30sk/

https://bersa.eagleimportsinc.com/bersa/thunder-pro-ultra-compact-9mm

 

[Robenstein]

Yes they lobbied to save themselves from costly regulations, but they threw everyone else under the bus which is poor business from a standpoint. Instead of fighting a losing battle with the mismanagement of that state, they should pick up and leave. Yes it costs more money upfront, but will likely save them money in the long run. When Les Baer hopped across the border to Iowa, the community welcomed him and gave him tax breaks. Other small niche makers like PTR inc have pulled it off, and given how awesome sales were for 8 years under the former POTUS, I would think that any wise maker has a moderate capital reserve to pull this off.

There are rumors of other large moves happening in other less friendly states. I have heard that S&W's parent company is looking to expand heavily in Missouri, even in this slump. I have to wonder if expansion is code for moving out of Massachusetts.

RRA, Springfield, Armalite, and DS Arms are all makes based in Illinois and more than capable of hopping across the border to a friendlier turf.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: Robenstein
Yes they lobbied to save themselves from costly regulations,.........


That's just it. How "costly" could they have possibly been, if all it took was $100K to grease it to go away? In any event $50K from each is a drop in the bucket, over what it would cost either of them to pull up stakes, purchase another plant, hire new skilled employees, (most won't move with the company), and move out of state. It's always easier to "play fair" with other peoples money.

And as far as them, "throwing everyone under the bus". Where was the NRA, the Illinois State Rifle Association, Citizens Committee For The Right To Keep And Bear Arms, Gun Owners of America, and everyone else to prevent this? I never heard a word about any of this on network or cable news. Or received a call for donations from any of them to fight it. And I belong to all of them except for the I.S.R.A. If they would have put up a big costly fight, word of it would have been everywhere. It's not Springfield's or RRA's job to protect everyone from government regulations.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: SKVenture
This "new" gun brings absolutely NOTHING new to the small gun segment. It's purely a "me too" product.


Here I agree completely. I put this "new" gun from Springfield into much the same category as the "Saint". Just another AR-15 so they can be in the game too. Springfield is good at this. They wanted a piece of Glock's well established market. So they took the HS-2000 which was selling everywhere at the time for $250.00, (and no one wanted). Kept the basic design, put their name on it, pushed it with a multi million dollar advertising blitz, and bingo the XD was born. It's still produced in the same plant, (in Croatia), on the same machinery, by the same people, getting paid the same wages. The difference is the price is now well over double. But at least now you get $5 worth of cheap, plastic molded "gear".... And don't forget the "Grip Zone".

 

[Robenstein]

They could move 25 miles across the river to Iowa and keep most if not all of those workers (heck I commute 42 miles for my gig). If they are skilled and paid well...it is a 30 minute commute. That is what Les Baer did...and he got a very healthy tax break package for doing so. Iowa would welcome a larger maker like Springfield and would probably offer them a substantial package to offset moving costs. Heck one company recently got 110 million dollars in tax breaks and subsidies here to expand operations.

Also just because someone else has not stood up and fought it does not make what S.A. did right. Indeed they went from fighting it, to negotiating a carve out and then switched sides and just stood by, hence why many are now calling it Arnold Armory (as in Benedict Arnold). Many of those FFL's that will be affected in that state were their customers.

The NRA and others may have sat on their butts, but in my eyes that is less grievous a sin than changing sides. The statement that the CEO of S.A. released also was horrible and indeed hypocritical.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: Robenstein
The NRA and others may have sat on their butts, but in my eyes that is less grievous a sin than changing sides.


Why? It's the NRA job, along with other pro gun rights groups, to fight for gun rights and oppose restrictive licensing and gun registration, not Springfield or RRA. And what about the thousands of Class 1 FFL holders in Illinois? Where were they? Why didn't they band together, along with the NRA and other pro gun rights groups, and fight against any of this? I didn't hear a single word of opposition from ANY of them. How could Springfield and RRA "change sides", when it appears everyone else was never on one to begin with? Springfield and RRA simply took it upon themselves both financially, as well as legislatively, to fight this. And they were successful at it.

The others could have all joined in the fight with additional cash and lobbyist's, but they didn't. So now they've got to purchase additional licenses as a direct result. And Springfield, along with other manufacturers, do not. There are no sour grapes here. Just a bunch of people who should have done more, but instead chose not to. Now they're all whining. Too bad. If they would have put up a good, and perhaps costly fight, this might have ended differently for them. But they chose to do and spend nothing. That's not Springfield's or RRA's problem. It's their own. As always in any endeavor in life, you reap what you sew.

 

[Robenstein]

If you read the articles there are some screenshots pulled from the state's webpages. There were 1,056 registered opponents to the bill versus 496 for it when it passed the Senate. So there was a aide to abandon, and indeed it was the more numerous side.

Does the NRA and other groups deserve some blame...perhaps, but that is another discussion and it does nothing to exonerate S.A. and RRA here. At best it just means there is some blame to be shared.

 

[Al]

Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: SKVenture
This "new" gun brings absolutely NOTHING new to the small gun segment. It's purely a "me too" product.


Here I agree completely. I put this "new" gun from Springfield into much the same category as the "Saint". Just another AR-15 so they can be in the game too. Springfield is good at this. They wanted a piece of Glock's well established market. So they took the HS-2000 which was selling everywhere at the time for $250.00, (and no one wanted). Kept the basic design, put their name on it, pushed it with a multi million dollar advertising blitz, and bingo the XD was born. It's still produced in the same plant, (in Croatia), on the same machinery, by the same people, getting paid the same wages. The difference is the price is now well over double. But at least now you get $5 worth of cheap, plastic molded "gear".... And don't forget the "Grip Zone".

Ouch..if what you say is true. But if it works for them..good on them. Competition is what allows all of us to be able to select the firearm of our choice.

 

[JDM396]

Originally Posted By: Robenstein
Yes they lobbied to save themselves from costly regulations, but they threw everyone else under the bus which is poor business from a standpoint. Instead of fighting a losing battle with the mismanagement of that state, they should pick up and leave. Yes it costs more money upfront, but will likely save them money in the long run. When Les Baer hopped across the border to Iowa, the community welcomed him and gave him tax breaks. Other small niche makers like PTR inc have pulled it off, and given how awesome sales were for 8 years under the former POTUS, I would think that any wise maker has a moderate capital reserve to pull this off.

There are rumors of other large moves happening in other less friendly states. I have heard that S&W's parent company is looking to expand heavily in Missouri, even in this slump. I have to wonder if expansion is code for moving out of Massachusetts.

RRA, Springfield, Armalite, and DS Arms are all makes based in Illinois and more than capable of hopping across the border to a friendlier turf.


Yep, this is what I was getting at previously. Sucks for the smaller FFLs too as the big box stores are exempt. I'm not sure why any gun manufacturer would want to stay in Illinois anyways. This will just be another step in a constant erosion of gun rights.