Spec OEM fluid price gouging : your experience ?

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Well, I've only worked in the legal system for 35 years, so I will defer to your obviously superior knowledge of how a lawsuit involving Magnuson-Moss would play out...




You tell me. You have access to legal precedence on the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. Legal precedence is so frick strong here it goes without saying. (as you must know) Find me 50 cases that the car manufacture won a oil related suit on ATF to ATF applications. Not a AFT to CVT oil wrongful application suit. Tag YOUR it. You have access, do your homework. Come back in a week and show us your legal prowess.

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People will balk at $20 for OEM DCT fluid but are afraid of Amalie's DCT fluid, which costs much less. Amalie is a reputable company that has been around for a long time
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$20 for a quart of CVT fluid is scary, but they won't use the less-expensive Castrol CVT. Castrol is a major OE supplier that makes great products. In fact, Castrol is usually the one who makes all those expensive boutique OEM fluids! (like RR363 brake fluid, BOT 338 gear oil, and the BMW TWS oil!)

If I had a DCT, I'd use Amalie with no problem. If I had a CVT, it would get Castrol.
 
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
Originally Posted By: Whimsey
Originally Posted By: Tom777
VW dealership sells G550540A2 ATF for $24 a qt. I bet they make more money on selling parts than selling cars.


I recently had the dealer change the fluid in the PTU in our 2017 Explorer because it's a real pain to change. It uses 75W-140 gear oil. They charged $22 for a quart of Motorcraft 75W-140 gear oil. This dealer also charges $90 for a 5 qt oil change, same as the Ford "Works" $39 description one but they use bulk conventional oil, Motorcraft oil is an extra up charge charge. Needless to say they don't do my oil changes
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Whimsey


$22.11 is MSRP for 1 quart of Motorcraft 75W140


Thanks, at least the dealer is being honest, I really mean it since my wife bought the Explorer there an paid for a Ford ESP through them, hopefully they'll treat her correctly and honestly.

Whimsey
 
Originally Posted By: Mainia

You tell me. You have access to legal precedence on the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. Legal precedence is so frick strong here it goes without saying. (as you must know) Find me 50 cases that the car manufacture won a oil related suit on ATF to ATF applications. Not a AFT to CVT oil wrongful application suit. Tag YOUR it. You have access, do your homework. Come back in a week and show us your legal prowess.


You have missed the point entirely; you may in fact win a lawsuit. My point(and Steve's) is that in order to prevail you will have to hire competent counsel and expect to wait 2-5 years{depending on your state of residence and the chosen jurisdiction) for a final resolution. You will receive-and must answer-pages and pages of written interrogatories, requests for admissions, and requests for production of documents. Next, you and your "star witness" will have to sit for at least one deposition each(and the OEM will probably have 3 or more expert witnesses). Then comes the trial; if I've learned one thing in my decades of practice and sitting on the bench it's the fact that there is no such thing as a slam-dunk in a jury trial. So should you lose at trial, prepare for another 1 to 3 years waiting on an appellate decision.

If you want to spend a significant chunk of your time defending the virtue of Amsoil or Redline have at it; I have better things to do with my time- my 8HP45 will only get OEM ATF.
 
No you don't understand, And you think they are going to want to do this when the Ford administration and the democrates wrote the law to STOP this EXACT situation? They took away the right for the manufacture to say "sorry you lose" its your transmission fluid in a sweeping generality "scapegoat move". They, the manufacture has to bring to court all that [censored] to prove why it happened. Sorry, for the very few where it is an issue, it just plain and simple is not cost effective and it is really bad press suing your buyers. There is just no way they can win when the add-pack is less robust and the base stock are inferior to a boutique oil made for rough service. And a 20 year plus track record of being arguably #1 and #2 specialty oil companies in the world. It just is not happening.

There are many service writers and even 2 service managers that have not heard of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act and there more that have . I have heard many times when I was in the dealer when a employee was pushing a part/oil to keep warranty, and I pipe right up and comment to the customer that there is a law that protects you and right after that the dealer employee agrees on it and after talking to them they have to push the lie or "forgot" about the law.

You, yes YOU have the right by USA law to go buy a 2017 Rav4 drive it off the lot and put Redline ATF in and have the transmission blow 3 months later ( which it wont since it is superior ATF in every way) and Toyota can't deny warranty UNLESS they can prove the oil did it. They just don't bring these lawsuits up, because there is really nothing special about their oil. In fact it is craap oil if you want to rate it's base stocks and it's add-pack compared to Redline or Amsoil. They just replace them because of the law. You see, they just don't have a case that the oil was the issue. For the very few people that slide through that used CVT oil in an ATF pumper it just is not worth it to sue your buyers of your car or truck when there is a law that states the consumer has the right to use ANY oil that is compatible. IF they wanted to say you need to use their ATF Toyota WS which is a horrible semi-synthetic ATF, they would of had to provide it for free when I wanted to change it in the warranty window. . I asked them, and they did not want to provide it for free, so I have a legal right to put a compatible AFT and still receive full transmission warranty. IT's THE LAW - Mr Lawyer.


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Originally Posted By: Mainia
No you don't understand, And you think they are going to want to do this when the Ford administration and the democrates wrote the law to STOP this EXACT situation? They took away the right for the manufacture to say "sorry you lose" its your transmission fluid in a sweeping generality "scapegoat move". They, the manufacture has to bring to court all that [censored] to prove why it happened. Sorry, for the very few where it is an issue, it just plain and simple is not cost effective and it is really bad press suing your buyers. There is just no way they can win when the add-pack is less robust and the base stock are inferior to a boutique oil made for rough service. And a 20 year plus track record of being arguably #1 and #2 specialty oil companies in the world. It just is not happening.


Sorry, you still don't get it. The customer has to sue the manufacturer and invoke Magnuson-Moss. The manufacturer does have the burden of proving that the customer's product caused the damage, but the manufacturer will be the defendant. If the manufacturer denies warranty coverage what earthly reason would they have to sue the customer? They can just sit back and wait and see if a lawsuit results.


Originally Posted By: Mainia
You, yes YOU have the right by USA law to go buy a 2017 Rav4 drive it off the lot and put Redline ATF in...


As breathtakingly wonderful as that proposition sounds, I think I'll pass...
 
You are missing out!!


But they just don't make you invoke it, so it is a moot point. They follow the law for the most part thank God.
 
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What are you talking about? The Plaintiff must affirmatively plead that Magnuson-Moss applies in order to take advantage of the statute's protections. If you don't understand that, I cannot explain it any better.
 
WRONG!! Then when I am around YOU as my attorney I guess I have to ask you to "invoke the attorney client privileges" Otherwise you WONT DO IT!!! Right???? You will babble your mouth all over the place up until I ask you to invoke it. If I go by your logic.

Because just as I stated when I checked with the Toyota dealers about my trans cooler, that is a classic case to deny any trans issue from starving an ATF pump. They know it is not worth bring it to court, like he said, if the cooler is done right we replace the transmission. I know how you would love to have everyone to go to court but not every move or action is done in court. I spent a 1/2 hour on the phone with the owner of a small Toyota dealer in Wisconsin and he knows all about M-M W A and stated the manufacture knows all about it too. They don't bully their buyers as you would like. They honor the law.
 
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Remember ,,,,,,Some of us are still waiting for the 50 Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act cases that people "invoked" on the manufacture. Seeing the ONLY way this act works, (according to you), is IF the customer "invokes" the law. We should have 1,000's of these for you to find since you have easy access to these. There will not be many, if the manufacture "honors" the law for the most part.
 
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You obviously don't have a shred of a clue about how the MMA is utilized in a civil proceeding(among other things), so at this point I'll take George Carlin's advice and give you free reign to continue to proclaim your wrong-headed and unintentionally hilarious opinions concerning the legal system...
 
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Why is it when I had a motor warranty on my 2013 Hyundai with 14,000 miles and I received a new long block. I had a Fram Ultra on and Hyundai's "can" have lifter tick when using after market filters and they said they have to test with their filter and they put one on to test and said I still have the option to put on the Fram Ultra motor if I wanted, but we would rather see ours on there. I called Fram and talked to their tech dept and they stated 3-4 years ago we followed EXACT specs on the Hyundai filter including can thickness and our Ultras flow oil with less resistance and a higher flow rate then OEM, so the oil filter is no issue. Ours is superior in every way he said.

WHY because they know they have to honor the Mangnuson-Moss Warranty Act. And I did not have to even "invoke it" You can go on parsing your legal ease, but real world use differs from from your scenario. Sorry I call your opinion and scenario bull shavicky.


I will send my paper work on my new motor PM if you like.
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Originally Posted By: Whimsey
Motorcraft LV ATF can be purchased from Rock Auto for $60/12 quart box delivered. That's $5/quart. I know because I did it recently.


That's $60 for 12 quarts. I don't want/need 12 quarts. I know it's sacrilege to say this here, but I don't stockpile oil, fluids, etc....
 
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
My work everyday. Unfortunately I cannot ship it, but if you come here I can sell it to you.


How does that help me ? By the time I would come buy it from you, I think - not 100% certain - that it would end up cheaper for me to just pay $8-9/quart from a local Ford dealer.
 
Originally Posted By: MCompact
Much like a neutered dog, some people just don't(or more likely, can't) get it...


You tried but some people are just always right even when they're wrong.
 
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Originally Posted By: Rendezvous
Originally Posted By: MCompact
Much like a neutered dog, some people just don't(or more likely, can't) get it...


You tried but some people are just always right even when they're wrong.


Exactly; I'm so glad this forum has the "Ignore" option.
 
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