So then why not just one oil???

[2015Corolla]

One oil to rule them all.

 

[chris719]

0w-12 or something is going to be the new universal oil for cars with engines designed with advanced coatings and surface finishes that spec these oils. For everything else, a Euro 0w-30/40 or 5w-30 are pretty **** close to universal.

 

[kschachn]

interisting to note,why does mobil not make a say 0w-35 energy eff oil with sp-gf-6 etc,,,the mobil super car buster listed is really good,just a bit too thick??,

Because they are grades, not specific viscosities.

 

[TiGeo]

I'd think 5W30 grade is the one oil to rule them all if you had to pick one. I could use this in all 5 of my vehicles including track use.

 

[ArthurArgentum]

Just having 0W40 should cover everything correct?
Easy cold weather starts, good protection when hot i assume?

Why opt for such a viscosity? I personally lean towards options like 0W-20 or 0W-30. The reason being, achieving a viscosity of 0W-40 (ensuring good CCS and MRV) usually entails incorporating a significant amount of PAO, which doesn't have a very high viscosity (not exceeding PAO6), or utilizing low-viscosity bases (such as KV100 - 4 cSt) and then thickening them with polymers. However, it's worth noting that polymers can vary and bring along their own set of challenges.
Additionally, there's a fundamental physico-chemical principle that states higher oil viscosity corresponds to a lower solvent capacity. Granted, if the oil contains esters and other solubility enhancers, this issue can be mitigated, but esters are seldom added in sufficient quantities. Consequently, the oil's solvency is compromised. Mineral oils (Groups I and II) are also unlikely to be ideal for 0W-x graded oils (Any among 0Ws).
In the United States, you can easily find 0W-20 oils at any major supermarket, making it my preferred viscosity overall. Modern 0W-20 ILSAC oils exhibit low volatility, are well-crafted, boast a robust additive package, and include potent antioxidants (let's mention amines). In my opinion, this makes them a versatile choice.
In extreme cases, such as scorching summers or the sweltering Arizona heat, you can consider extracting a small (adding + 0.5 qt) amount of the oil and supplementing it with a thickening agent, like boat mineral 4T-outboard oil, such as 25W-40.

 

[kschachn]

Yes, supermarket availability is definitely a preference.

 

[CanAmAndMore]

Why opt for such a viscosity? I personally lean towards options like 0W-20 or 0W-30. The reason being, achieving a viscosity of 0W-40 (ensuring good CCS and MRV) usually entails incorporating a significant amount of PAO, which doesn't have a very high viscosity (not exceeding PAO6), or utilizing low-viscosity bases (such as KV100 - 4 cSt) and then thickening them with polymers. However, it's worth noting that polymers can vary and bring along their own set of challenges.
Additionally, there's a fundamental physico-chemical principle that states higher oil viscosity corresponds to a lower solvent capacity. Granted, if the oil contains esters and other solubility enhancers, this issue can be mitigated, but esters are seldom added in sufficient quantities. Consequently, the oil's solvency is compromised. Mineral oils (Groups I and II) are also unlikely to be ideal for 0W-x graded oils (Any among 0Ws).
In the United States, you can easily find 0W-20 oils at any major supermarket, making it my preferred viscosity overall. Modern 0W-20 ILSAC oils exhibit low volatility, are well-crafted, boast a robust additive package, and include potent antioxidants (let's mention amines). In my opinion, this makes them a versatile choice.
In extreme cases, such as scorching summers or the sweltering Arizona heat, you can consider extracting a small (adding + 0.5 qt) amount of the oil and supplementing it with a thickening agent, like boat mineral 4T-outboard oil, such as 25W-40.

My particular reason is that I have many engines that specifically asked for 0w40 or 5w40 or 10w40.
So I would be paranoid as can be to dump 5w20 into them.
Where 0w40 oil covers the range for every gas engine I own.
Including generators, mowers, snowblowers, outboards, cars, quads, and more.

 

[4WD]

My particular reason is that I have many engines that specifically asked for 0w40 or 5w40 or 10w40.
So I would be paranoid as can be to dump 5w20 into them.
Where 0w40 oil covers the range for every gas engine I own.
Including generators, mowers, snowblowers, outboards, cars, quads, and more.

Yep - my son just moved and thunderstorms have been knocking them offline - did a one hour rebuild (carb, filters, fuel, oil) on one of my generators to bring him … Nice to have 30’s & 40’s on the shelf …

 

[ArthurArgentum]

My particular reason is that I have many engines that specifically asked for 0w40 or 5w40 or 10w40.
So I would be paranoid as can be to dump 5w20 into them.
Where 0w40 oil covers the range for every gas engine I own.
Including generators, mowers, snowblowers, outboards, cars, quads, and more.

I have a delightful picture in mind, featuring answers to questions compiled in a "science" magazine, courtesy of Mobil. Although it may be a bit dated, it never fails to bring a smile to one's face. Allow me to share an amusing anecdote from Mobil's history. When Mobil made the decision to transform its European oil, Mobil SHC (1973), and introduce Mobil 1 (1975), the result was an intriguing blend of PAO with 15% esters. This concoction possessed a viscosity of 5W-20, which caused quite a stir and prompted apprehension among many.
However, let's not hastily conclude that I advocate for 0W-20 oil across the board. There are certain vehicles, such as Ferraris, motorcycles, as well as aircraft piston engines and locomotives, that demand more SAE . Nevertheless, for the majority of applications, 0W-20 typically suffices quite admirably.
For those who may feel uneasy or desire a sense of reassurance, exploring the availability of a slightly less common oil with a viscosity of 0W-30..

 

[OVERKILL]

Why opt for such a viscosity? I personally lean towards options like 0W-20 or 0W-30.

Well, if the application calls for a 0W-40, that would be at least a pretty significant reason.

The reason being, achieving a viscosity of 0W-40 (ensuring good CCS and MRV) usually entails incorporating a significant amount of PAO, which doesn't have a very high viscosity (not exceeding PAO6), or utilizing low-viscosity bases (such as KV100 - 4 cSt) and then thickening them with polymers.

That's how all RC oils (minus the PAO) are blended. Light bases with considerable VII content, which yields the best fuel economy results.

However, it's worth noting that polymers can vary and bring along their own set of challenges.

Yes, which can be kept in check with rigorous "stay-in-grade" requirements like many of the Euro approvals have.

Additionally, there's a fundamental physico-chemical principle that states higher oil viscosity corresponds to a lower solvent capacity. Granted, if the oil contains esters and other solubility enhancers, this issue can be mitigated, but esters are seldom added in sufficient quantities. Consequently, the oil's solvency is compromised. Mineral oils (Groups I and II) are also unlikely to be ideal for 0W-x graded oils (Any among 0Ws).

AN's are another base oil used to improve solubility. Amusingly, Mobil's FS 0W-40 is one of the few oils advertised to clean, broadly (not just rinse away sludge or keep things clean).

In the United States, you can easily find 0W-20 oils at any major supermarket, making it my preferred viscosity overall.

Which is fine if you have an application that's suitable for. If you don't, well, it being your preferred viscosity isn't overly relevant.

Modern 0W-20 ILSAC oils exhibit low volatility, are well-crafted, boast a robust additive package, and include potent antioxidants (let's mention amines). In my opinion, this makes them a versatile choice.

They also tend to have low levels of phosphorous due to being ILSAC grades, which limits their suitability for applications outside of the ILSAC-spec'd envelope. They are objectively less robust than a Full-SAPS Euro lubricant in pretty much every metric.

Castrol Edge 0W-20 (SN Plus variant) had a Noack of 12% for example, considerably higher than a Euro 0W-40, which will be below 10%.

In extreme cases, such as scorching summers or the sweltering Arizona heat, you can consider extracting a small (adding + 0.5 qt) amount of the oil and supplementing it with a thickening agent, like boat mineral 4T-outboard oil, such as 25W-40.

So instead of using a fully tested heavier oil with a full suit of formal approvals, you are advocating "dosing" an ISLAC 0W-20 with a totally different type of product, using different additive chemistry and base oils, designed for a totally different application, with totally unqualified performance of the resultant mix, as the preferred option?

 

[TiGeo]

Current situation in this thread:

 

[kschachn]

I have a delightful picture in mind, featuring answers to questions compiled in a "science" magazine, courtesy of Mobil. Although it may be a bit dated, it never fails to bring a smile to one's face. Allow me to share an amusing anecdote from Mobil's history. When Mobil made the decision to transform its European oil, Mobil SHC (1973), and introduce Mobil 1 (1975), the result was an intriguing blend of PAO with 15% esters. This concoction possessed a viscosity of 5W-20, which caused quite a stir and prompted apprehension among many.
However, let's not hastily conclude that I advocate for 0W-20 oil across the board. There are certain vehicles, such as Ferraris, motorcycles, as well as aircraft piston engines and locomotives, that demand more SAE . Nevertheless, for the majority of applications, 0W-20 typically suffices quite admirably.
For those who may feel uneasy or desire a sense of reassurance, exploring the availability of a slightly less common oil with a viscosity of 0W-30..

View attachment 157545

For one thing, although HT/HS had not been invented yet the SAE grades have changed multiple times since 1975 and the film thickness is not comparable. The 20-grade oils of that time were not the same as today's in this respect. You're falling for a common misconception.

 

[OVERKILL]

I have a delightful picture in mind, featuring answers to questions compiled in a "science" magazine, courtesy of Mobil. Although it may be a bit dated, it never fails to bring a smile to one's face.

Important history to add here.
- HTHS wasn't added to J300 until the 1990's, decades after that was published.
- The lower limit for HTHS for a 10W-40, up until about 15 years ago, was the same as for an SAE xW-30, 2.9cP
- Mobil's PAO-based 5W-20 had an HTHS of at least 3.0cP, making it appropriate for applications that called for an xW-30 or 10W-40 at that time

Since then, minimum HTHS specs appeared, primarily in the Euro space, mandating an HTHS of 3.5cP or higher, while your typical ILSAC 0W-20/5W-20 will have an HTHS ~2.6cP.

There are a whole family of oils all targeted at around that 3.5cP (or a bit higher) space in the 0W-30/5W-30/0W-40/5W-40 grades.

 

[ArthurArgentum]

So instead of using a fully tested heavier oil with a full suit of formal approvals, you are advocating "dosing" an ISLAC 0W-20 with a totally different type of product, using different additive chemistry and base oils, designed for a totally different application, with totally unqualified performance of the resultant mix, as the preferred option?

In rare circumstances, we encounter an exceptional scenario. If a minute quantity of such oil is introduced, it may even exhibit a remarkable synergy between dispersants and antioxidants. This intriguing phenomenon manifests when a small amount of the oil is added, showcasing a harmonious interplay between these essential components.

When it comes to additional additives, such as extra polymers or PAO (known to heighten the aniline point), it's wiser to opt for an oil that keeps things streamlined and solvent capacity higher (0W-20), free from unnecessary and often ineffective overload e.g. of zinc, phosphorus, calcium, and magnesium. By doing so, you'll enjoy a smoother viscosity and improved solubility, ensuring a seamless performance. However, in the face of extreme heat, a touch of a slightly thicker non-full synthetic oil can be judiciously introduced to tackle the challenge head-on.

 

[ArthurArgentum]

The 20-grade oils of that time were not the same as today's in this respect.

Mobil 1 (1975) had HTHS about 2.6-2.8 cP..

 

[OVERKILL]

In rare circumstances, we encounter an exceptional scenario. If a minute quantity of such oil is introduced, it may even exhibit a remarkable synergy between dispersants and antioxidants. This intriguing phenomenon manifests when a small amount of the oil is added, showcasing a harmonious interplay between these essential components.

Or, more likely, it could result in the total opposite. Oils are fully formulated products, playing "home Chemist" and imagining that you are improving the end result is hopelessly naive.

When it comes to additional additives, such as extra polymers or PAO (known to heighten the aniline point), it's wiser to opt for an oil that keeps things streamlined and solvent capacity (0W-20), free from unnecessary and often ineffective overload e.g. of zinc, phosphorus, calcium, and magnesium.

Your typical modern 0W-20 will be blended with Group III, which has extremely poor solvency, approaching that of PAO. It just lacks some of the other formulation challenges that PAO brings to the table, such as seal shrink.

By doing so, you'll enjoy a smoother viscosity and improved solubility, ensuring a seamless performance. However, in the face of extreme heat, a touch of a slightly thicker non-full synthetic oil can be judiciously introduced to tackle the challenge head-on.

This reads like an Herbal Essences shampoo commercial.

 

[Shel_B]

So instead of using a fully tested heavier oil with a full suit of formal approvals, you are advocating "dosing" an ISLAC 0W-20 with a totally different type of product, using different additive chemistry and base oils, designed for a totally different application, with totally unqualified performance of the resultant mix, as the preferred option?

This is sort of tangential to your comment: I am continually amazed at the concoctions folks put together in order to improve or modify a fully formulated oil. How have these concoctions been determined? What's the basis for using, as in this example, a 0W-20 mixed with a thickening agent, like boat mineral 4T-outboard oil, such as 25W-40. How was it determined that this is a good and beneficial choice?

 

[ArthurArgentum]

Your typical modern 0W-20 will be blended with Group III, which has extremely poor solvency, approaching that of PAO. It just lacks some of the other formulation challenges that PAO brings to the table, such as seal shrink.

It's not merely a matter of the base oil type; the crucial factor lies in the viscosity itself. In the case of 0W-20, both the amount of PAO and, more significantly, the viscosity are reduced. As viscosity increases, the capacity for effective dissolution diminishes.
This fact can be easily verified by consulting the documentation on the aniline point of any base oil. While PAO4 may still exhibit some dissolving capabilities, PAO8 falls short in comparison. PAO6 typically resides at the border, representing a transitional variant.
Similar principles apply to group III base oils, albeit with an initial advantage in terms of dissolving power (owing to a higher presence of naphthenes in III). However, for 0W-20 oil, a less viscous base and a reduced amount of polymers are employed, ensuring optimal performance.

 

[TiGeo]

In before everything that is coming including but not limited to:

Bickering.
Heads blowing off.
Conspiracy theories about the ID of the poster.
Lock.
Etc.

 

[kschachn]

I think we are having word salad for lunch here.