Snap-on pricing

[hatt]

Originally Posted by doitmyself
Sorry, but you took it hook, line, and sinker.

..................................................................................

Everyone else has moved on to the original thread topic "Snap-on pricing". You went off topic about warranties and continue in every single post.

Since you wish to discuss warranties, here are some for the major tool manufacturer's "lifetime warranties" that also put them a notch below Craftsman and Harbor Freight: (now I have taken the bait. Shame on me.

) The entertainment value has overridden the usefulness of this thread

Hazet: Claims due to liability for defects do not exist in the event of only minor deviation from the agreed characteristics, in the event of only minor impairment of usability, in the event of natural wear or damage which emerges after the transfer of risk due to incorrect or negligent handling or any other particular external influences.

Proto: Does not extend to products that have been improperly used, altered, or repaired by any entity other than Proto. Does not cover the following categories of products: universal sockets, universal joints, thin-wall impact sockets, adapters, and retaining rings. Does not cover damage due to ordinary wear and tear.

SK: This excludes wear from normal use, or any problems or defects caused by misuse, abuse, neglect, accidents, modification or improper maintenance of the tool. Any tool that appears to have been used for any purpose, at SK's sole determination, other than that for which it is intended will not be accepted for warranty replacement, repair or reimbursement.

Channellock: https://www.channellock.com/warranty/ Normal wear and tear, misuse, lack of maintenance, abuse or overload..........

Knipex: This warranty applies only to the original end-user that purchased the tool, and does not apply in any way to failures caused by misuse, abuse, alteration, accident, or tools worn out by use.

Looks like you listed a bunch of junk. What sort of jackleg outfit doesn't cover regular wear or using a screwdriver as a crowbar.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted by hatt
Looks like you listed a bunch of junk......

He's been doing that all day.

 

[hatt]

Originally Posted by billt460
Originally Posted by hatt
Looks like you listed a bunch of junk......

He's been doing that all day.

Do you believe Harbor Freight has higher quality tools than Snap On?

 

[das_peikko]

Snap-on has ruined me. Now if I try to use homeowner grade tools, they feel like junk.

 

[spasm3]

I've never really looked at the warranty of a hand tool when i bought it. Table saw, Miter saw, yes. But hand tools? I have never had to return any of the older craftsman i have. I generally selected the tool based on need, cost and the quality of the item. I never made a wrench or socket selection based on the warranty.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted by hatt
Do you believe Harbor Freight has higher quality tools than Snap On?

For the end user purchasing their hand tools and wrenchs, whoever they are, or claim to be, I don't think there is enough difference to matter. From a standpoint of warranty yes, they are a lot better. That's obvious enough to anyone who can read.

I'm not saying Snap On is, "bad". Far from it. They've just chosen to limit themselves and their share of the market, by having to drive around in a big flashy truck, trying to locate people who are willing to pay $100.00 for box wrench. Or else finance it for 5 years. Of which there aren't too many.

Go to the Harbor Freight website. Look at their various hand tool sets they have for sale and read the reviews on them. They are very highly rated by their customers. And that's the bottom line. The end user. If they were as bad as some here make them out to be, Harbor Freight would have been long gone by now. People would have tried them once, and moved on. Instead the direct opposite is happening. They now have over 1,000 stores nationwide, and are growing at the rate of 3 new stores a week. Love them or hate them, that's not happening because they're selling bad product, and ripping people off.

 

[Trav]

They are low quality tools and their warranty is not great. It is contradictory and ambiguous at best
The lifetime of their cheap made in India line wrenches was about 2 minutes according to reviews that have somehow disappeared for some reason.

Quote
Hand Tool Lifetime Warranty

Lifetime Warranty on Hand Tools — We guarantee our Hand Tools to be free from defects in material and workmanship for the life of the product. Limitations apply. Harbor Freight Tools will replace any hand tool that fails to properly work during the lifetime of the original purchaser. In the event an identical item is not available as a replacement: Harbor Freight Tools reserves the right to substitute a substantially similar item in its place. This warranty gives you specific legal rights and you may have other rights that vary from state to state.


So which is and what limitations apply?

Then we have this..
Quote
Limited 90-Day Warranty

Harbor Freight Tools makes every effort to assure that its products meet high quality and durability standards, and warrants to the original purchaser that this product is free from defects in materials and workmanship for the period of 90 days beginning on the date of purchase or order.

This warranty does not apply to damage due directly or indirectly, to misuse, abuse, negligence or accidents, repairs or alterations outside our facilities, criminal activity, improper installation, normal wear and tear, or to lack of maintenance. We shall in no event be liable for death, injuries to persons or property, or for incidental and contingent, special or consequential damages arising from the use of our product.

Some states do not allow the exclusion or limitation of incidental or consequential damages, so the above limitation of exclusion may not apply to you. THIS WARRANTY IS EXPRESSLY IN LIEU OF ALL OTHER WARRANTIES, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING THE WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS.

To take advantage of this warranty, the product or part must be returned to us with transportation charges prepaid. Proof of purchase (e.g. in-store receipt or packing slip/invoice), date and an explanation of the complaint must accompany the merchandise.

If our inspection verifies the defect, we will replace the product at our election or we may elect to refund the purchase price if we cannot readily and quickly provide you with a replacement. We will return repaired products at our expense, but if we determine there is no defect, or that the defect resulted from causes not within the scope of our warranty, then you must bear the cost of returning the product.

This warranty gives you specific legal rights and you may also have other rights which vary from state to state.


This exactly what you knock other companies for. How about this little gem..

Quote
ITEMS PURCHASED in STORE

If for any reason you are not satisfied with an item purchased from Harbor Freight Tools, you may return the product within 90 days for a full refund or replacement, whichever you prefer. The limited warranty term is 90-day beginning on the date of invoice. A 20% re-stocking fee may apply. You must provide the original receipt to receive an exchange or refund.
Things to Know:

Proof of purchase is required for all returns and exchanges;
Merchandise may be returned within 90 days of purchase for a refund or exchange in the original tender. Check and debit card purchases may be refunded in cash;
A valid government issued ID must be presented at the time of return;
Shipping and handling charges are nonrefundable.
For safety reasons, items cannot contain oil or gas in them at the time of return or exchange;
For safety reasons, certain products cannot be returned to the store if opened. For returns, please call customer service toll-free at 1-844-416-9141;
Select items will be subject to a 20% re-stocking fee. See an associate for details;
The manager has the right to refuse returns of any item, at any time, for any reason;


The is nothing in these warranties that looks very ironclad. You can claim anything you want but this is the warranty as they post it.

Edit: From their site.

https://www.harborfreight.com/customer-service-return-exchange.html


You didn't post this, you cherry picked what you wanted others to see and not more. You know what you did we all do, now who is the cat in the box trying to cover up his dung, we all see it and smell it.

You only posted this so I guess if posting only what you consider relevant makes you a liar you are one yourself.

Quote
"Hand tools sold by Harbor Freight are guaranteed to be free from defects in material and workmanship for the life of the product. This warranty only applies to the original purchaser of the product. Harbor Freight will replace any broken hand tools with the same item, if the same item is no longer available they will replace it with the most similar item available. If you need to take advantage of this warranty all you have to do is bring the broken tool into any Harbor Freight store."

 

[hatt]

Originally Posted by billt460
Originally Posted by hatt
Do you believe Harbor Freight has higher quality tools than Snap On?

For the end user purchasing their hand tools and wrenchs, whoever they are, or claim to be, I don't think there is enough difference to matter. From a standpoint of warranty yes, they are a lot better. That's obvious enough to anyone who can read.

I'm not saying Snap On is, "bad". Far from it. They've just chosen to limit themselves and their share of the market, by having to drive around in a big flashy truck, trying to locate people who are willing to pay $100.00 for box wrench. Or else finance it for 5 years. Of which there aren't too many.

Go to the Harbor Freight website. Look at their various hand tool sets they have for sale and read the reviews on them. They are very highly rated by their customers. And that's the bottom line. The end user. If they were as bad as some here make them out to be, Harbor Freight would have been long gone by now. People would have tried them once, and moved on. Instead the direct opposite is happening. They now have over 1,000 stores nationwide, and are growing at the rate of 3 new stores a week. Love them or hate them, that's not happening because they're selling bad product, and ripping people off.


The few things I have bought from HF didn't instill a lot of confidence. I bought the for one time use and they did work. The last thing I picked up was 1/2 inch drive torx sockets because I needed a large torx I didn't have. That worked out okay. The smaller sockets in that set were out of spec and very loose compared to some better quality keys I have. I stripped a T25 bolt on my mountain bike brake rotors before discovering this however.

 

[Trav]

Hey it got a lifetime warranty but that wont fix the damage the poor fitting tool caused.

 

[hatt]

Originally Posted by Trav
Hey it got a lifetime warranty but that wont fix the damage the poor fitting tool caused.

Warranties are funny like that. "Hey these lifetime warranty screws started rusting within 6 months and now my $4000 fence looks like [censored]." "No problem sir just bring in your receipt and we'll refund your $80!!"

 

[billt460]

You can attack their warranty and quality all you wish. You can claim the customer ratings are "rigged". You can complain because they're made overseas, with what you claim to be "inferior materials". You can carry on how their "lifetime" isn't as long as your dog's, yours, or a Desert Tortoise. You can whine they don't "fit right". And on and on.

It doesn't change the success of their business model, or why they keep growing. They offer a good quality tool, with a great warranty for an affordable price, period. If they didn't people wouldn't purchase them, and keep on purchasing them. No one will tolerate paying good hard earned money for a bad product. Let alone do it over and over for decades.

Companies that offer junk are here today, and gone tomorrow. They don't keep growing and expanding their business model for over 40+ years. The free market doesn't work that way, and never has. I don't care what you are manufacturing and trying to sell.

I've used, and to some degree abused them. And I have never broken a wrench or socket hand tool I have ever purchased from them. But again, I'm only one guy, just like the rest of you. My experience, just as yours, are of limited value in the overall ratings of their products. But their overall customer approval, combined with the success of their business, like most ANY business, can only be based on their product quality, and customer satisfaction over time.

This has all been proven, over and over. Year after year. Decade after decade. If the consumer satisfaction wasn't there, they wouldn't be there. They are, and they are successful, and they are growing. It really is just as simple as that.

 

[Kage860]

In many cases snap on makes the best hand tools, but value per dollar is low. Theres always a market for the "best" of anything whether its tools or cars or phones. For a pro mechanic snap on ratchets and combo wrenches might be worth it. Sockets and air tools better value is probably found elsewhere. I work in a power plant and we use a lot of proto, williams, and armstrong etc and cheap grainger crap. At the end of the day they all turn fasteners, some can take more of a beating than others.

 

[Trav]

They are there because the stuff is cheap, that's the only reason. Walmart and Big Lots are not known for quality goods but yet look at the size of the chain, people have come to accept sub standard quality in favor of low price and HF is no different.
The fact is all the negative reviews for the made in India line wrenches disappeared, they were so poor. Amazon customer reviews are notorious for being padded and false so it is not just a HF thing.

Their warranty is not what you claimed it to be and posted, you were the first to call me a liar for not not posting the whole warranty you posted and you did the same dam thing, what kind of B.S is that? No, it's not as simple as that and you are not backpedaling and dancing out of this one chief, you busted a lot of balls and now you have been caught doing what you accused me and others doing.

Their business model is simple, sell cheap stuff that most DIY folks wish they could have in premium quality but cant or don't want to pay a premium for it. You came into this thread claiming their warranty was better than anyone else's, it isn't. You said their tools are better than Snap on because of the warranty they are not. You cant walk this stuff back chief you wrote it.
Quote
Originally Posted by hatt
Do you believe Harbor Freight has higher quality tools than Snap On?


Originally Posted by billt460
For the end user purchasing their hand tools and wrenchs, whoever they are, or claim to be, I don't think there is enough difference to matter. From a standpoint of warranty yes, they are a lot better. That's obvious enough to anyone who can read.


So once we see the whole warranty and read it it plain to see you were posting what you wanted us to see and not the whole warranty. You can complain and holler all you want but its evident you were trying to pull something over the eyes and it wasn't wool. Quit while you are behind.

 

[spasm3]

I don't get the big issue here. HF is for the homeowner who will use it a few times a year and does not want or need pro-quality tools. The pro-guality tools are made to be turned and used every day in a shop, there for they cost more.

The Garage owner does not have time to go back and forth to HF to exchange tools. Time is money, if a bay is not used in the shop its wasted hours and real estate costs.

 

[Trav]

Exactly, that is the point.

 

[willbur]

I don't understand the HF fan boys being so happy with the HF tool warranty; but every time I tried to replace one of their tools under warranty, they really hassled me. "When did you buy it?", "Do you have the receipt?- no replacement unless you have the receipt.", etc. Who keeps a receipt for a $7 hammer or pliers? If it's lifetime warranty and has their logo on it, why does one need to remember when it was purchased or to keep the receipt?
Regarding SO prices, perhaps using depreciation or cost of doing business deductions allows greatly reduced net cost for the pro? And SO knows this and increases prices, accordingly.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted by Trav
......you were the first to call me a liar for not not posting the whole warranty you posted

No. I did not call you a liar for not posting the whole warranty. Don't put words in my mouth. And learn to read before you shoot yours off. I called you a liar because you claimed everything you eliminated from Snap On's warranty was, in your exact words, "irrelevant". The fact is that it was NOT irrelevant, and was very important information you chose to purposefully eliminate. Because you obviously did not want others to see it. And you then turned around and lied as to why you did. Get your story straight before you continue to make yourself look even more foolish. Although somehow I doubt that is possible.

And furthermore, I provided links to all 3 warranties that I posted. Everything I cut and pasted was from those websites, and from those websites alone. The fact you went off on a turd hunt and posted from other websites I did not, does not mean anything I did was evasive. Everything I posted was to the letter accurate from the information I posted it from, and you dam well know it.

All you are trying to do at this point is dig yourself out of an embarrassing hole you dug for yourself, and then jumped into. That's not my pig or my farm, it's yours. Between that, and all of your lies, I would think at this point you would have enough stink on you from all of this. But from the way you're continuing you obviously don't think so. Your desperation is showing more and more with every post you make.