Snap-on pricing
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Originally Posted by FirstNissan
I wrench on the weekend as do several friends. We were all a Craftsman bunch and have gone to HF over the past few years since craftsman also went to China. (That as well as HF quality has really improved over the past 2-3 years). Those prices are ridiculous plus some.
This ^^^^^^^^^^
The whole anti China thing is pretty much a waste of time today, because so many American manufacturers like Craftsman have gone there in today's global market. And as you mentioned Harbor Freight's quality is now on par, or even exceeds the over priced brands. Many of their hand tools now have lifetime guarantees just like Craftsman, but with much better prices. The only problem Harbor Freight has with a lot of professional mechanics today is prestige. They will avoid Harbor Freight and overpay for Snap On to have it. They don't want to be sneered at by having a tool box full of Harbor Freight tools at their jobs.
So instead they pay obscene prices for tools from Snap On. And what's funny is many of Snap On's hand tools and wrench's do not have lifetime guarantees. While Harbor Freight's do.
I wrench on the weekend as do several friends. We were all a Craftsman bunch and have gone to HF over the past few years since craftsman also went to China. (That as well as HF quality has really improved over the past 2-3 years). Those prices are ridiculous plus some.
This ^^^^^^^^^^
The whole anti China thing is pretty much a waste of time today, because so many American manufacturers like Craftsman have gone there in today's global market. And as you mentioned Harbor Freight's quality is now on par, or even exceeds the over priced brands. Many of their hand tools now have lifetime guarantees just like Craftsman, but with much better prices. The only problem Harbor Freight has with a lot of professional mechanics today is prestige. They will avoid Harbor Freight and overpay for Snap On to have it. They don't want to be sneered at by having a tool box full of Harbor Freight tools at their jobs.
So instead they pay obscene prices for tools from Snap On. And what's funny is many of Snap On's hand tools and wrench's do not have lifetime guarantees. While Harbor Freight's do.
Originally Posted by billt460
Originally Posted by FirstNissan
I wrench on the weekend as do several friends. We were all a Craftsman bunch and have gone to HF over the past few years since craftsman also went to China. (That as well as HF quality has really improved over the past 2-3 years). Those prices are ridiculous plus some.
This ^^^^^^^^^^
The whole anti China thing is pretty much a waste of time today, because so many American manufacturers like Craftsman have gone there in today's global market. And as you mentioned Harbor Freight's quality is now on par, or even exceeds the over priced brands. Many of their hand tools now have lifetime guarantees just like Craftsman, but with much better prices. The only problem Harbor Freight has with a lot of professional mechanics today is prestige. They will avoid Harbor Freight and overpay for Snap On to have it. They don't want to be sneered at by having a tool box full of Harbor Freight tools at their jobs.
So instead they pay obscene prices for tools from Snap On. And what's funny is many of Snap On's hand tools and wrench's do not have lifetime guarantees. While Harbor Freight's do.
WE HAVE A WINNER!!!!
BING BING BING BING!!!!!
150% right on the money.
With one caveat, the 1/2 air impact of HF won a torque test and beat out Snap-On so "the big dealership mechanics" COULD JUSTIFY bring in a HF product and get minimal ridicule.
.
Originally Posted by FirstNissan
I wrench on the weekend as do several friends. We were all a Craftsman bunch and have gone to HF over the past few years since craftsman also went to China. (That as well as HF quality has really improved over the past 2-3 years). Those prices are ridiculous plus some.
This ^^^^^^^^^^
The whole anti China thing is pretty much a waste of time today, because so many American manufacturers like Craftsman have gone there in today's global market. And as you mentioned Harbor Freight's quality is now on par, or even exceeds the over priced brands. Many of their hand tools now have lifetime guarantees just like Craftsman, but with much better prices. The only problem Harbor Freight has with a lot of professional mechanics today is prestige. They will avoid Harbor Freight and overpay for Snap On to have it. They don't want to be sneered at by having a tool box full of Harbor Freight tools at their jobs.
So instead they pay obscene prices for tools from Snap On. And what's funny is many of Snap On's hand tools and wrench's do not have lifetime guarantees. While Harbor Freight's do.
WE HAVE A WINNER!!!!
BING BING BING BING!!!!!
150% right on the money.
With one caveat, the 1/2 air impact of HF won a torque test and beat out Snap-On so "the big dealership mechanics" COULD JUSTIFY bring in a HF product and get minimal ridicule.
.
Originally Posted by das_peikko
Originally Posted by Chris142
I work at a shop and I consider myself a professional. No way would I pay those prices.
Did you ever get your 13mm and 15mm Matco wrenches replaced? As I remember, you either wore them out or lost them.
No. I took that set home. Bought snap on wrenches on sale. And when I bought the metric set he threw in the sae set free. I paid about $300.
Originally Posted by Chris142
I work at a shop and I consider myself a professional. No way would I pay those prices.
Did you ever get your 13mm and 15mm Matco wrenches replaced? As I remember, you either wore them out or lost them.
No. I took that set home. Bought snap on wrenches on sale. And when I bought the metric set he threw in the sae set free. I paid about $300.
As for harbor freight. Their Taiwanese made impact sockets are a great deal! The ones that have the flat black coating on them.
This totally misses the mark
Originally Posted by billt460
Originally Posted by FirstNissan
I wrench on the weekend as do several friends. We were all a Craftsman bunch and have gone to HF over the past few years since craftsman also went to China. (That as well as HF quality has really improved over the past 2-3 years). Those prices are ridiculous plus some.
This ^^^^^^^^^^
The whole anti China thing is pretty much a waste of time today, because so many American manufacturers like Craftsman have gone there in today's global market. And as you mentioned Harbor Freight's quality is now on par, or even exceeds the over priced brands. Many of their hand tools now have lifetime guarantees just like Craftsman, but with much better prices. The only problem Harbor Freight has with a lot of professional mechanics today is prestige. They will avoid Harbor Freight and overpay for Snap On to have it. They don't want to be sneered at by having a tool box full of Harbor Freight tools at their jobs.
So instead they pay obscene prices for tools from Snap On. And what's funny is many of Snap On's hand tools and wrench's do not have lifetime guarantees. While Harbor Freight's do.
This totally misses the mark! First of all Craftsman never was a manufacturer but a brand name owned by Sears and now has been sold to Stanley Black and Decker, they could quite easily make a pro line using Proto or Facom which are other brands they own. This was done previously when Sears had Apex making their tools, the sockets were made by the now defunct Armstrong and quite good.
Comparing HF to premium tools is ludicrous, they are inferior for everyday use in a commercial use environment, they may be okay for DIY and homeowner use but they will not last a pro very long, fit and finish may be okay initially but they wear quickly. Aside from that you fail to acknowledge the other brand that are nowhere near the Snap on prices and also pro quality.
I use many tool brands, Hazet, Stahlwille, JH Williams, Armstrong, Wright, Dowidat, Knipex, Klein, SK, PB Swiss, Vessel, Koken, Nepros, Engineer, Facom and many more inc some Snap on especially the ratchets and old Craftsman "V" tools. No one has ever sneered at my box or my tools, in fact most other mechanics have found the brands I use interesting and some have even bought them they liked them so much especially the Hazet and Stahlwille stuff.
Nothing from HF is coming anywhere near the quality of these tools and most are very reasonably priced and will last a lifetime in everyday service. The only reason I have upgraded some of my tools is for the better fit "flank drive" style broaching provides in sockets and wrenches, my old tools didn't have this.
The other problem with HF stuff is there are no replacement parts or even replacement plastic handles for the ratchets, this is important as I do not want a replacement for my perfect working ratchet because the grip is damaged, a replacement for a Hazet is only 4 bucks. Their air tools have a 90 day warranty and are not anywhere near the quality of a premium tool and no rebuild kits available. I can have a kit for the Aircat, Hazet or Proto impacts today or within 24 hrs
HF may be okay for weekend warrior but pro mechanics don't buy them very often unless they want to fab a one off tool simply because they need a tools that can work for them every day 8 and more hours a day.
For guys working in a shop the convenience of having a truck come to them is more valuable than you might think, taking time to run around to stores to warranty a $5 socket is more than its worth.
Originally Posted by billt460
Originally Posted by FirstNissan
I wrench on the weekend as do several friends. We were all a Craftsman bunch and have gone to HF over the past few years since craftsman also went to China. (That as well as HF quality has really improved over the past 2-3 years). Those prices are ridiculous plus some.
This ^^^^^^^^^^
The whole anti China thing is pretty much a waste of time today, because so many American manufacturers like Craftsman have gone there in today's global market. And as you mentioned Harbor Freight's quality is now on par, or even exceeds the over priced brands. Many of their hand tools now have lifetime guarantees just like Craftsman, but with much better prices. The only problem Harbor Freight has with a lot of professional mechanics today is prestige. They will avoid Harbor Freight and overpay for Snap On to have it. They don't want to be sneered at by having a tool box full of Harbor Freight tools at their jobs.
So instead they pay obscene prices for tools from Snap On. And what's funny is many of Snap On's hand tools and wrench's do not have lifetime guarantees. While Harbor Freight's do.
This totally misses the mark! First of all Craftsman never was a manufacturer but a brand name owned by Sears and now has been sold to Stanley Black and Decker, they could quite easily make a pro line using Proto or Facom which are other brands they own. This was done previously when Sears had Apex making their tools, the sockets were made by the now defunct Armstrong and quite good.
Comparing HF to premium tools is ludicrous, they are inferior for everyday use in a commercial use environment, they may be okay for DIY and homeowner use but they will not last a pro very long, fit and finish may be okay initially but they wear quickly. Aside from that you fail to acknowledge the other brand that are nowhere near the Snap on prices and also pro quality.
I use many tool brands, Hazet, Stahlwille, JH Williams, Armstrong, Wright, Dowidat, Knipex, Klein, SK, PB Swiss, Vessel, Koken, Nepros, Engineer, Facom and many more inc some Snap on especially the ratchets and old Craftsman "V" tools. No one has ever sneered at my box or my tools, in fact most other mechanics have found the brands I use interesting and some have even bought them they liked them so much especially the Hazet and Stahlwille stuff.
Nothing from HF is coming anywhere near the quality of these tools and most are very reasonably priced and will last a lifetime in everyday service. The only reason I have upgraded some of my tools is for the better fit "flank drive" style broaching provides in sockets and wrenches, my old tools didn't have this.
The other problem with HF stuff is there are no replacement parts or even replacement plastic handles for the ratchets, this is important as I do not want a replacement for my perfect working ratchet because the grip is damaged, a replacement for a Hazet is only 4 bucks. Their air tools have a 90 day warranty and are not anywhere near the quality of a premium tool and no rebuild kits available. I can have a kit for the Aircat, Hazet or Proto impacts today or within 24 hrs
HF may be okay for weekend warrior but pro mechanics don't buy them very often unless they want to fab a one off tool simply because they need a tools that can work for them every day 8 and more hours a day.
For guys working in a shop the convenience of having a truck come to them is more valuable than you might think, taking time to run around to stores to warranty a $5 socket is more than its worth.
Personal Favorite! https://www.homedepot.com/p/Ingersoll-Rand-1-2-in-Drive-Super-Duty-Impact-Wrench-IRT231C/206808464
I have this, but they are more expensive! https://www.homedepot.com/p/Ingerso...-_-undefined-_-206808464-_-206808580-_-N
I recently bought this to try! https://www.homedepot.com/p/AIRCAT-...-_-undefined-_-206808580-_-205671596-_-N
In my humble opinion, the IR231 will last for many, many trouble free years, the Aircat is the best "performance for the money" option. The Aircat and IR Titanium are very good impacts, but in a Commercial/Industrial setting, they will not last as long as the IR231 before needing a rebuild!
The SnapOn is not cost effective, in any way, shape or form!
I have this, but they are more expensive! https://www.homedepot.com/p/Ingerso...-_-undefined-_-206808464-_-206808580-_-N
I recently bought this to try! https://www.homedepot.com/p/AIRCAT-...-_-undefined-_-206808580-_-205671596-_-N
In my humble opinion, the IR231 will last for many, many trouble free years, the Aircat is the best "performance for the money" option. The Aircat and IR Titanium are very good impacts, but in a Commercial/Industrial setting, they will not last as long as the IR231 before needing a rebuild!
The SnapOn is not cost effective, in any way, shape or form!
Course not but there are other options. I bought a Proto titanium last year and its great, it is also sold under the Mac brand. The 231 is one of my favorites also, mine is well over 35 years old, been rebuilt a few times and still runs great.
What I really like about the Proto is the handle forward design, its so well balanced and light making it super easy to work with for longer periods.
Proto impact
What I really like about the Proto is the handle forward design, its so well balanced and light making it super easy to work with for longer periods.
Proto impact
I have had less than stellar life out of the Snap on air tools as compared to the IR tools . . At work our service van compressors were 175 psi + to get work done in the field.The IR took the pressure with east. This July has been 19 years since I have been out of the Business.Things really change.
Originally Posted by Trav
Course not but there are other options. I bought a Proto titanium last year and its great, it is also sold under the Mac brand. The 231 is one of my favorites also, mine is well over 35 years old, been rebuilt a few times and still runs great.
What I really like about the Proto is the handle forward design, its so well balanced and light making it super easy to work with for longer periods.
Proto impact
I bought my 231 in 1989. It's never been apart. With 150psi going to it it can remove lugnuts from 18wheelers.
Course not but there are other options. I bought a Proto titanium last year and its great, it is also sold under the Mac brand. The 231 is one of my favorites also, mine is well over 35 years old, been rebuilt a few times and still runs great.
What I really like about the Proto is the handle forward design, its so well balanced and light making it super easy to work with for longer periods.
Proto impact
I bought my 231 in 1989. It's never been apart. With 150psi going to it it can remove lugnuts from 18wheelers.
Most shop guys aren't paying MSRP and SO offers a lot of "deals" like BOGO... still not inexpensive.
I'm not going to get into the tool debacle of china vs the rest of the world. Nor am I going to get into the HF vs Snap On etc debate. I'm a DIY guy and Hobbist. I don't make a living repairing cars trucks or bikes, but if my tools determined whether my family eats and has a roof on their heads, I would get the best equipment available. That being said before I moved to Mexico City and had some spare cash, I would check out pawn shop for quality tools, I've found a ton of grate high quality tools for great prices, yes they are used but if they are high quality who cares as long as they work. Oh and those of you who say quality tools are expensive, you should see how expensive even junk tools are here in Mexico.
Last edited:
Originally Posted by Chris142
Originally Posted by Trav
Course not but there are other options. I bought a Proto titanium last year and its great, it is also sold under the Mac brand. The 231 is one of my favorites also, mine is well over 35 years old, been rebuilt a few times and still runs great.
What I really like about the Proto is the handle forward design, its so well balanced and light making it super easy to work with for longer periods.
Proto impact
I bought my 231 in 1989. It's never been apart. With 150psi going to it it can remove lugnuts from 18wheelers.
That's about when I bought mine, never been apart, still in service. The IR 231 has been the bench mark for decades in my opinion. It was the most powerful impact of that time, and I had a 3 year old Snap on impact that would not remove crank harmonic balancer bolts. The IR 231 did! Back in the 80's, Snap on, Bluepoint, Mac, IR air tool were really not that expensive. Infact, nothing was that expensive, now everything cost an arm and a leg!
Originally Posted by Trav
Course not but there are other options. I bought a Proto titanium last year and its great, it is also sold under the Mac brand. The 231 is one of my favorites also, mine is well over 35 years old, been rebuilt a few times and still runs great.
What I really like about the Proto is the handle forward design, its so well balanced and light making it super easy to work with for longer periods.
Proto impact
I bought my 231 in 1989. It's never been apart. With 150psi going to it it can remove lugnuts from 18wheelers.
That's about when I bought mine, never been apart, still in service. The IR 231 has been the bench mark for decades in my opinion. It was the most powerful impact of that time, and I had a 3 year old Snap on impact that would not remove crank harmonic balancer bolts. The IR 231 did! Back in the 80's, Snap on, Bluepoint, Mac, IR air tool were really not that expensive. Infact, nothing was that expensive, now everything cost an arm and a leg!
Originally Posted by clinebarger
Originally Posted by das_peikko
Originally Posted by clinebarger
Who buys Snap-on air tools? That's like buying a Snap-on floor jack......
Not quite. Snap-on makes their own air tools in Murphy, North Carolina.
And not any better than IR or Aircat in my opinion.
Snap on floor jack was made by Lincoln if I remember correctly, Lincoln in my hay days was the standard shop floor jack, I owned two of them. Any other Jack was a POS.
Originally Posted by das_peikko
Originally Posted by clinebarger
Who buys Snap-on air tools? That's like buying a Snap-on floor jack......
Not quite. Snap-on makes their own air tools in Murphy, North Carolina.
And not any better than IR or Aircat in my opinion.
Snap on floor jack was made by Lincoln if I remember correctly, Lincoln in my hay days was the standard shop floor jack, I owned two of them. Any other Jack was a POS.
In the high end Jet Aircraft world, Snap On tools are often necessary. We just installed a RH engine with the rows of 12 point fasteners. Some of which are buried a foot under the pylon. The long Snappy wrenches and swivels are able to to the job, with no margin to spare. Lesser tools simply can't do it.
There is a place for them.
There is a place for them.
Originally Posted by Cujet
In the high end Jet Aircraft world, Snap On tools are often necessary. We just installed a RH engine with the rows of 12 point fasteners. Some of which are buried a foot under the pylon. The long Snappy wrenches and swivels are able to to the job, with no margin to spare. Lesser tools simply can't do it.
There is a place for them.
Quality and service will always have a place. Low end products are going to let you down at some point.
In the high end Jet Aircraft world, Snap On tools are often necessary. We just installed a RH engine with the rows of 12 point fasteners. Some of which are buried a foot under the pylon. The long Snappy wrenches and swivels are able to to the job, with no margin to spare. Lesser tools simply can't do it.
There is a place for them.
Quality and service will always have a place. Low end products are going to let you down at some point.
Originally Posted by Cujet
There is a place for them.
Yes there is! In my toolbox!
There is a place for them.
Yes there is! In my toolbox!
Originally Posted by billt460
So instead they pay obscene prices for tools from Snap On. And what's funny is many of Snap On's hand tools and wrench's do not have lifetime guarantees. While Harbor Freight's do.
What Snap-on hand tools??
So instead they pay obscene prices for tools from Snap On. And what's funny is many of Snap On's hand tools and wrench's do not have lifetime guarantees. While Harbor Freight's do.
What Snap-on hand tools??
Originally Posted by KneeGrinder
Originally Posted by Chris142
Originally Posted by Trav
Course not but there are other options. I bought a Proto titanium last year and its great, it is also sold under the Mac brand. The 231 is one of my favorites also, mine is well over 35 years old, been rebuilt a few times and still runs great.
What I really like about the Proto is the handle forward design, its so well balanced and light making it super easy to work with for longer periods.
Proto impact
I bought my 231 in 1989. It's never been apart. With 150psi going to it it can remove lugnuts from 18wheelers.
That's about when I bought mine, never been apart, still in service. The IR 231 has been the bench mark for decades in my opinion. It was the most powerful impact of that time, and I had a 3 year old Snap on impact that would not remove crank harmonic balancer bolts. The IR 231 did! Back in the 80's, Snap on, Bluepoint, Mac, IR air tool were really not that expensive. Infact, nothing was that expensive, now everything cost an arm and a leg!
Back in those days torque numbers were more realistic than today, the 231 on paper was less than half as powerful as today's guns but as you say it still hits harder than many of the new ones.
After about 10 years I put a kit in it with new rotor blades, it really made a difference, a couple of years ago I did the same thing, with new gaskets and seals. Not bad for a gun that has seen service since 82 or 83. Too bad the original leather protective boot let go years ago.
Originally Posted by Chris142
Originally Posted by Trav
Course not but there are other options. I bought a Proto titanium last year and its great, it is also sold under the Mac brand. The 231 is one of my favorites also, mine is well over 35 years old, been rebuilt a few times and still runs great.
What I really like about the Proto is the handle forward design, its so well balanced and light making it super easy to work with for longer periods.
Proto impact
I bought my 231 in 1989. It's never been apart. With 150psi going to it it can remove lugnuts from 18wheelers.
That's about when I bought mine, never been apart, still in service. The IR 231 has been the bench mark for decades in my opinion. It was the most powerful impact of that time, and I had a 3 year old Snap on impact that would not remove crank harmonic balancer bolts. The IR 231 did! Back in the 80's, Snap on, Bluepoint, Mac, IR air tool were really not that expensive. Infact, nothing was that expensive, now everything cost an arm and a leg!
Back in those days torque numbers were more realistic than today, the 231 on paper was less than half as powerful as today's guns but as you say it still hits harder than many of the new ones.
After about 10 years I put a kit in it with new rotor blades, it really made a difference, a couple of years ago I did the same thing, with new gaskets and seals. Not bad for a gun that has seen service since 82 or 83. Too bad the original leather protective boot let go years ago.
Originally Posted by KneeGrinder
Originally Posted by clinebarger
Originally Posted by das_peikko
Originally Posted by clinebarger
Who buys Snap-on air tools? That's like buying a Snap-on floor jack......
Not quite. Snap-on makes their own air tools in Murphy, North Carolina.
And not any better than IR or Aircat in my opinion.
Snap on floor jack was made by Lincoln if I remember correctly, Lincoln in my hay days was the standard shop floor jack, I owned two of them. Any other Jack was a POS.
The Snap-on YA700 series was made by Lincoln.....Which can still be found as a Hein-Werner HW93642. The FJ200 that replaced the YA700 is made in China.
Originally Posted by clinebarger
Originally Posted by das_peikko
Originally Posted by clinebarger
Who buys Snap-on air tools? That's like buying a Snap-on floor jack......
Not quite. Snap-on makes their own air tools in Murphy, North Carolina.
And not any better than IR or Aircat in my opinion.
Snap on floor jack was made by Lincoln if I remember correctly, Lincoln in my hay days was the standard shop floor jack, I owned two of them. Any other Jack was a POS.
The Snap-on YA700 series was made by Lincoln.....Which can still be found as a Hein-Werner HW93642. The FJ200 that replaced the YA700 is made in China.
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