Should gas stations be mandated to have chargers as well?

[OVERKILL]

So exactly what's the solution? Everything should be powered off of diesel fuel? What about going with smaller vehicles? The CNG powered vehicles I see - especially in government fleets?

CNG is a good choice, direct power electric for urban busses and trams. Natural gas does have the problem of leakage and being a greenhouse gas itself. Synfuels are an emerging option as well.

There's certainly something to be said for a cheaper cost per mile, whether it's propane, CNG, or battery EV. I don't think that's going backwards.

No, but expecting to heat your home (electrification) or charge the EV using wind turbines that don't produce electricity for 4 days when it's -45C and then somebody says "oh, just add batteries" like that's cheap, easy, or even logical, is going backwards.

There's always been those who choose different methods of transport. Some people ride bicycles to work. I won't go into whether or not CO2 is that bad for the environment, but I think it would be good if there were fewer diesel or gasoline powered vehicles doing cold starts in my neighborhood.

Using current chemistry batteries for grid storage is ridiculous. It's like using 100 near-geriatrics on bicycles, each carrying a pre-lit glass of napalm, to move a 53ft trailer. They aren't going to last long, they are at high risk of catching fire, and the overall load carrying capacity is tiny.

I'm not opposed to EV's, just don't tell me I can't charge it when it isn't sunny or windy, or when it's cold or hot, and that it's going to be expensive regardless. It's no coincidence that Quebec and BC have the highest uptake rate of EV's in Canada, both of which having insanely cheap electricity. It's no wonder that they also, particularly Quebec, have clean home heating, for the same reason. Electrification doesn't need to be forced if you are able to send the right signals. If you are having to force it, you should stop and figure out why, because you are probably doing something wrong.

 

[MM8]

No one is asking anyone to spend every last dime. You cite the extreme. There is a happy medium between doing nothing and doing everything.

Happy mediums are off of the table with the word "mandated".
You started this conversation with the extreme.

 

[Torrid]

Oh, OK, so EV pollution does not matter as long as its "up front".

Got it.

That's not what I said at all, but go ahead and assume. An EV starts out by being more polluting. Depending on the car the crossover is around 20k miles where the ICE vehicle continues as it burns fuel. All I'm saying is those that lease their car and get an EV and only put 20k-25k miles on it before turning it in for the next one aren't fooling anyone.

 

[burbguy82]

Electric vehicles are the future. Yet ICE vehicles will be here for decades as well.

Should all gas stations be mandated to have chargers? Is having 1-2 chargers minimum reasonable?

I think so.

Interesting question.

I am not sure on if EXISTING gas stations should be required to have charging stations, maybe new ones, sure, depending on if the owner wants to...............but

Another fair question on the flip side of that coin is:

Should new charging stations be required to has gas?

 

[Torrid]

Interesting question.

I am not sure on if EXISTING gas stations should be required to have charging stations, maybe new ones, sure, depending on if the owner wants to...............but

Another fair question on the flip side of that coin is:

Should new charging stations be required to has gas?

There are some certain charging stations that wouldn't legally be able to be a gas station. Charging doesn't have the same limitations but I don't think either should be related. The ones that would benefit from charging will do it anyway.

 

[ZZman]

Interesting question.

I am not sure on if EXISTING gas stations should be required to have charging stations, maybe new ones, sure, depending on if the owner wants to...............but

Another fair question on the flip side of that coin is:

Should new charging stations be required to has gas?

I guess that would depend on the saturation level of gas stations in the area. The point is getting enough chargers in a certain area. There are usually enough gas stations in most areas.

 

[burbguy82]

It seems many times the GOVT mandates anything have to do with the market, it is not a good idea. I do not like the idea of a "mandate".

 

[gfh77665]

Interesting question.

I am not sure on if EXISTING gas stations should be required to have charging stations, maybe new ones, sure, depending on if the owner wants to...............but

Another fair question on the flip side of that coin is:

Should new charging stations be required to has gas?

Of course they "should" but they won't. That would be fair and farness is NOT to be tolerated!
The system is rigged to push a government choice that people generally don't want over a reliable, good choice the people generallywant.
If that was not true, any and all forced "mandates" would be totally unecessary.

 

[Torrid]

Of course they "should" but they won't. That would be fair and farness is NOT to be tolerated!
The system is rigged to push a government choice that people generally don't want over a reliable, good choice the people generallywant.
If that was not true, any and all forced "mandates" would be totally unecessary.

Literally no one said this here. Calm down.

 

[gfh77665]

Literally no one said this here. Calm down.

I answered a posed question. Thats how this works. Calm down.

 

[Torrid]

I answered a posed question. Thats how this works. Calm down.

I guess all bases need to be covered whether it’s a serious answer or not.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Literally no one said this here. Calm down.

This thread is recipe for trouble. An EV charging mandate at service stations makes zero sense no matter how you slice it. Both a mandate or the charging function itself.

 

[burbguy82]

All in all, I would say that the market will answer this question. If the business owners find the math will make a profit on an EV charging station, they will do it.

In mass, the station would have to be pretty big, being as "refueling" takes forever in comparison to dino fuels.....there aint no "get in and get out", therefore you would have to have many more spots to accommodate the same amount of people per hour. My guess would be at least 3 times the amount. Maybe this is one reason why many if not most of the charging stations are in parking lots of existing stores....who knows.

 

[y_p_w]

All in all, I would say that the market will answer this question. If the business owners find the math will make a profit on an EV charging station, they will do it.

In mass, the station would have to be pretty big, being as "refueling" takes forever in comparison to dino fuels.....there aint no "get in and get out", therefore you would have to have many more spots to accommodate the same amount of people per hour. My guess would be at least 3 times the amount. Maybe this is one reason why many if not most of the charging stations are in parking lots of existing stores....who knows.

Depends on the business. Makes more sense for businesses like restaurants and shopping malls, but not for gas stations where there might be a convenience store as the only thing they have besides fuel.

That being said, I've seen quite a few gas stations that have attached fast food restaurants. That might make sense for EV charging. It's been noted that Buc-ee's is allowing EV charging on their properties, and that's a pretty good use case. Same for Casey's General Store. Apparently they have some free charging. It might be interesting whether or not to charge for free (where available) or pay for faster charging.

Buc-ee’s and Mercedes-Benz are partnering to add high-speed chargers

The plan is to add them to most Buc-ee's travel centers, with 30 by the end of 2024.

arstechnica.com

https://www.caseys.com/products-and-services/ev-charging-stations

Casey's Offers Free EV Charging Stations

Casey's has multiple locations offering free or discounted EV Charging Stations! Tap to get your FAQs answered and find your nearest available station.

blog.caseys.com

 

[bullwinkle]

The answer to charger location is to put them someplace that has room, & something for the EV driver to do while charging. There’s a reason Meijer is putting Superchargers at all their suburban stores-the EV driver has high disposable income, and will go spend some while their car charges. Most gas stations DON‘T have the extra room for chargers, and the non-suburban ones would be a target for crime if they had chargers anyway. The “mandate” thing kills me, like the government has a bottomless pit of cash to hand out-it’s going to be hard enough to get the power generated & delivered as-is!

 

[y_p_w]

The answer to charger location is to put them someplace that has room, & something for the EV driver to do while charging. There’s a reason Meijer is putting Superchargers at all their suburban stores-the EV driver has high disposable income, and will go spend some while their car charges. Most gas stations DON‘T have the extra room for chargers, and the non-suburban ones would be a target for crime if they had chargers anyway. The “mandate” thing kills me, like the government has a bottomless pit of cash to hand out-it’s going to be hard enough to get the power generated & delivered as-is!

Sure - that's arlready happening to some degree. The last time I went to watch a movie there was a Volta charging setup being installed although it wasn't ready yet. I think their model is that they have free charging but subsidized by a big honking video billboard.

 

[gfh77665]

All in all, I would say that the market will answer this question.

Will the market be allowed to decide? Thats the real question.

 

[Torrid]

Will the market be allowed to decide? Thats the real question.

Hopefully. So far it hasn’t been touched.

 

[y_p_w]

This thread is recipe for trouble. An EV charging mandate at service stations makes zero sense no matter how you slice it. Both a mandate or the charging function itself.

Earlier I found a city that had a requirement for any new gas stations with at least 10 pumps needs to have at least 2 "alternative fuel" sources where EV charging was one option. I'm curious as to how a pump is defined - like both sides of one unit count as one or two pumps. I will say that the closest gas station to my house only has 4 units and 8 numbered pumps. I've been going there for ages where I remember when they had mechanical pumps and needed an attendant to reset them even after they were 100% self-service.

 

[burbguy82]

Depends on the business. Makes more sense for businesses like restaurants and shopping malls, but not for gas stations where there might be a convenience store as the only thing they have besides fuel.

That being said, I've seen quite a few gas stations that have attached fast food restaurants. That might make sense for EV charging. It's been noted that Buc-ee's is allowing EV charging on their properties, and that's a pretty good use case. Same for Casey's General Store. Apparently they have some free charging. It might be interesting whether or not to charge for free (where available) or pay for faster charging.

Buc-ee’s and Mercedes-Benz are partnering to add high-speed chargers

The plan is to add them to most Buc-ee's travel centers, with 30 by the end of 2024.

arstechnica.com

https://www.caseys.com/products-and-services/ev-charging-stations

Casey's Offers Free EV Charging Stations

Casey's has multiple locations offering free or discounted EV Charging Stations! Tap to get your FAQs answered and find your nearest available station.

blog.caseys.com

My point was that to fuel the same amount of people per hour, you have to have way more charging stations.