Should gas stations be mandated to have chargers as well?

[ZZman]

Now the total load they need to support. It's a drop in the bucket and not centralized where needed. Just like EVs solar and wind take a hit in the winter.

When I worked for Gould/GNB we made backup power storage for ATT and other telecoms. Some were huge lead acid cells as big as a 6 ft man in arrays underground as big as foot ball fields. When the AGM batteries came out we were making them to fill up huge warehouses. This was all just for telecoms.

You have no idea of the scale that is needed. And we already shut down 80% of the coal plants.

Of course we need to scale up a huge amount. This is a work in progress. We need to not waste all the green energy when it is in large supply and use it when needed.

Switching from wood to coal was a big transition. Switching from coal to gas was too. Electrification was a huge undertaking. New things always are.

 

[javacontour]

Why would I send more then required? If they raise it I will gladly pay it without whining and trying to wiggle out of it.

Because if you are really willing to pay more, no one has to force you to pay more. Being willing means you do it without being coerced or forced by law to do something.

Willingness has nothing to do with what others or law forces you to do.

Willingness is about what one voluntarily does.

If others have to force you to do something, that says more about obedience than it does about willingness.

If you are not willing to voluntarily send a check, then you are not willing to pay more.

It means you are obedient.

There is a difference.

 

[ZZman]

Because if you are really willing to pay more, no one has to force you to pay more. Being willing means you do it without being coerced or forced by law to do something.

Willingness has nothing to do with what others or law forces you to do.

Willingness is about what one voluntarily does.

If others have to force you to do something, that says more about obedience than it does about willingness.

If you are not willing to voluntarily send a check, then you are not willing to pay more.

It means you are obedient.

There is a difference.

Ok, I am obedient. Better then defiant and law break or tax cheat.

 

[ZZman]

Because if you are really willing to pay more, no one has to force you to pay more. Being willing means you do it without being coerced or forced by law to do something.

Willingness has nothing to do with what others or law forces you to do.

Willingness is about what one voluntarily does.

If others have to force you to do something, that says more about obedience than it does about willingness.

If you are not willing to voluntarily send a check, then you are not willing to pay more.

It means you are obedient.

There is a difference.

Do you willingly offer to pay more for products you buy or do you pay the price they want?

 

[javacontour]

Do you willingly offer to pay more for products you buy or do you pay the price they want?

I made no claim that I would give the US government more money.

That being said, if I get good service, I tip well.

During the pandemic, we would often tip the value of the meal or pizza or whatever we ordered because we wanted to support the businesses that were impacted by mandates made by those who were not impacted by the rules they imposed on others.

I will buy someone a meal, but not donate cash to the panhandler on the street.

Or fill up their gas tank if someone approaches me in a gas station.

I've purchased coats and warm clothes for those who hit me up in the cold.

I won't hand out cash, but I'll give something they claim to need like fuel, a meal or warm clothes.

We "adopt" kids and families during holiday drives at our local YMCA. Gifts for the kids who may not have them under the tree. Or school supplies, a Thanksgiving meal, and so on.

I can help those around me without having the money pass through the hands of politicians who would claim they are doing "insert deity here" work. They reality is they are buying votes with other people's money.

Compassion is not measured by what one forces others to do. Compassion is measured by voluntary action.

 

[y_p_w]

Very true. I think it would be their choices to make rather than mandate.

Some "gas stations" really just want the permit and sell gas way too expensive and use the lot for auto repair in reality as well.

I thought we had discussion where the "service station" is more or less a thing of the past. Certainly not for new permits.

Convenience store sales are where they make their money these days.

 

[gfh77665]

Is burning fuel environmentally friendly? Consumerism isn’t environmentally friendly in general, but there are trade offs. Most of an EV’s pollution is up front.

Oh, OK, so EV pollution does not matter as long as its "up front".

Got it.

 

[ZZman]

I made no claim that I would give the US government more money.

That being said, if I get good service, I tip well.

During the pandemic, we would often tip the value of the meal or pizza or whatever we ordered because we wanted to support the businesses that were impacted by mandates made by those who were not impacted by the rules they imposed on others.

I will buy someone a meal, but not donate cash to the panhandler on the street.

Or fill up their gas tank if someone approaches me in a gas station.

I've purchased coats and warm clothes for those who hit me up in the cold.

I won't hand out cash, but I'll give something they claim to need like fuel, a meal or warm clothes.

We "adopt" kids and families during holiday drives at our local YMCA. Gifts for the kids who may not have them under the tree. Or school supplies, a Thanksgiving meal, and so on.

I can help those around me without having the money pass through the hands of politicians who would claim they are doing "insert deity here" work. They reality is they are buying votes with other people's money.

Compassion is not measured by what one forces others to do. Compassion is measured by voluntary action.

That is awesome

 

[gfh77665]

I have always said I am willing to pay higher taxes.

So how much extra have you paid so far?

Did you know there really is a line on your return to voluntarily pay more taxes? Have you ever done that? if not, why not?

Lead the way, pay more taxes, lots more, then let us know how much extra you paid. Thank you for your contributions!

 

[ZZman]

So how much extra have you paid so far?

Did you know there really is a line on your return to voluntarily pay more taxes? Have you ever done that? if not, why not?

Lead the way, pay more taxes, lots more, then let us know how much extra you paid. Thank you for your contributions!

Why would I pay more then required? On the flip side I don't/didn't try to take iffy deductions.
Do you voluntarily pay more then sticker price for items or pay the sticker price?

 

[02SE]

My wife and I rarely do those things now....

Can you not see the hypocrisy? OTHERS should be doing more, but you're not willing to...

You have an Internet connection. Stop spending money on that, and send that amount into the IRS. Again, set the example.

 

[SHOZ]

How much will have to be subsidized somehow to install these in the gas stations should be the question. If the government doesn't pay to have it done then the all other paying customers will surly have this added to the final price.

What's the cost to install?

Gas station of the future a inverted version of the present day malls? With parking and charging in the middle and shops and other 15 minute city goodies all around the outside?

 

[cptbarkey]

Having been a business owner, I'm well aware.

The point is the OP has been positing these types of threads for years, wherein EVERYONE ELSE needs to step up. Suggest that he could do the same, and it's a raft of excuses.

I figured, his post and answers are all borderline trollish.

 

[y_p_w]

How much will have to be subsidized somehow to install these in the gas stations should be the question. If the government doesn't pay to have it done then the all other paying customers will surly have this added to the final price.

What's the cost to install?

Gas station of the future a inverted version of the present day malls? With parking and charging in the middle and shops and other 15 minute city goodies all around the outside?

A lot of amenities at various places we go to are paid for indirectly. The TP and paper towels in the public restrooms, for example.

We went to this place once driving a Model 3 loaner and Tesla was picking up the cost of everything. However, I don't see them listed as any official place for Tesla charging. They may have just installed a bunch of Tesla Wall Connectors on their own. When I got there I didn't see a single one that wasn't being used. Even in an affluent place, free is a pretty big draw.

Parking & Rideshare | City Center Bishop Ranch

No matter how your arrive we've got you covered. Our Parking and Rideshare Service makes sure everyone can visit City Center!

citycenterbishopranch.com

We have a total of 14 Tesla chargers and 6 universal EV chargers in our parking garage, as well as two of each in our valet parking area. The EV chargers are a complimentary amenity for our customers, and a 4 hour limit is considered etiquette as a courtesy to other guests.​

Plugshare's database claims 21 non-networked J1772 and 3 non-networked Tesla. That might actually be better. Tesla drivers usually have the adapter.

 

[drtyler]

I figured, his post and answers are all borderline trollish.

More than borderline.

 

[JeffKeryk]

I figured, his post and answers are all borderline trollish.

If you think a post is trollish, don't take the bait.
By the way, given that ICE and EV fuels are totally different, putting them in the same place makes little sense unless it is a huge fueling location. And a mandate is just plain dumb.

 

[cptbarkey]

If you think a post is trollish, don't take the bait.

Who said i'm taking the bait? Like a troll, he still hasnt answered my question.

 

[Rmay635703]

Service stations still exist in this area but most have removed the gas pumps or are located in a remote tourist area where you aren’t allowed to build anything new and no other gas or repair services exist

I thought we had discussion where the "service station" is more or less a thing of the past. Certainly not for new permits.

Convenience store sales are where they make their money these days.

Our main gas station chain owns their own transportation system, a dairy, farms, food processing plants, packaging, distribution and have food services in every location.

They are a leg above the typical grocery chain as they own the farm(s) and dairy, and have contracts with Amish smokers that butcher and make various sausages, jerky and beef sticks. they limit what they sell but are similar to what used to be a medium sized local grocery store.

In 2012 they were the only public place to charge (very slowly) in Wisconsin and Iowa.

 

[OVERKILL]

Of course we need to scale up a huge amount. This is a work in progress. We need to not waste all the green energy when it is in large supply and use it when needed.

Switching from wood to coal was a big transition. Switching from coal to gas was too. Electrification was a huge undertaking. New things always are.

Backing up Alberta's wind turbines during the recent cold snap with batteries would have cost $750 billion dollars.

Your examples are not big transitions. A big transition was the industrial revolution, switching from the age of sail and windmills to the steam engine, and later diesels. From being at the whims of weather to being able to run all the time. This bootstrapped progress and thrust us into the modern era.

In the history of mankind we have NEVER gone backwards on energy density. That is, we have never naturally migrated from a source more energy dense to one that is less. It is antithetical to progress and evolution. We went from harnessing the wind; being at the mercy of the weather, to forging our own destiny with something massively more energy dense and portable.

The next leap forward was fission, vastly more dense still. We conquered the oceans. A nuclear powered carrier like Enterprise could be at sea for years, projecting power and influence.

The wind and solar agenda is predicated on society embracing the very things we so eagerly moved away from. This is the Malthusian way. This is a key pillar of the degrowth manifesto. That my hydro bill would be $1,000 a month in Germany vs what I pay here in nuclear-powered Ontario speaks volumes.

There's nothing wrong with the idea of electrification, but a successful plan must have cheap and reliable electricity as its cornerstone. If you are simultaneously trying to force conservation through eye-watering prices and telling people when and where they can consume, you've already lost. The electorate will come for you and you will be swept out of power and resigned to obscurity like Kathleen Wynne was.

 

[y_p_w]

Backing up Alberta's wind turbines during the recent cold snap with batteries would have cost $750 billion dollars.

Your examples are not big transitions. A big transition was the industrial revolution, switching from the age of sail and windmills to the steam engine, and later diesels. From being at the whims of weather to being able to run all the time. This bootstrapped progress and thrust us into the modern era.

In the history of mankind we have NEVER gone backwards on energy density. That is, we have never naturally migrated from a source more energy dense to one that is less. It is antithetical to progress and evolution. We went from harnessing the wind; being at the mercy of the weather, to forging our own destiny with something massively more energy dense and portable.

The next leap forward was fission, vastly more dense still. We conquered the oceans. A nuclear powered carrier like Enterprise could be at sea for years, projecting power and influence.

The wind and solar agenda is predicated on society embracing the very things we so eagerly moved away from. This is the Malthusian agenda. This is a key pillar of the degrowth manifesto. That my hydro bill we be $1,000 a month in Germany vs what I pay here in nuclear-powered Ontario speaks volumes.

There's nothing wrong with the idea of electrification, but a successful plan must have cheap and reliable electricity as a cornerstone. If you are simultaneously trying to force conservation through eye-watering prices and telling people when and where they can consume, you've already lost. The electorate will come for you and you will be swept out of power and resigned to obscurity like Kathleen Wynne was.

So exactly what's the solution? Everything should be powered off of diesel fuel? What about going with smaller vehicles? The CNG powered vehicles I see - especially in government fleets?

There's certainly something to be said for a cheaper cost per mile, whether it's propane, CNG, or battery EV. I don't think that's going backwards.

There's always been those who choose different methods of transport. Some people ride bicycles to work. I won't go into whether or not CO2 is that bad for the environment, but I think it would be good if there were fewer diesel or gasoline powered vehicles doing cold starts in my neighborhood.