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- Nov 24, 2023
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Mandated ? No .
Should gas stations be mandated to have chargers as well?
- Thread starter ZZman
- Start date
Green power needs 100% backup.
All power sources need backup, right?
Do nuke and coal plants have 100% back up?
100% backup? Not likely.
Without exception, no source of electricity runs full time. Coal, nuclear and gas plants—or conventional resources—periodically experience unexpected outages, and they all need to be turned off periodically for routine maintenance.
Kwik trip has had a place to plug in since 2010.
Having a PHEV I always wished each pump would have an L2 EVSE that I could drop down and charge while pumping gas and dumping a load and grabbing a muncho.
Takes 20m-30m to do all 3.
Sadly too few PHEVs to justify
Before Wisconsin even had solar or Wind our utility went on a building spree of unnecessary taxpayer funded coal fired plants . We had 400% more installed power than we could use locally and exported power to Illinois, Minnesota even Canada.
The net effect of this has been a large and sustained increase in fixed fees and electrical costs to cover decommissioning “unnecessary” nuclear and hydro plants .
My local area Of 100,000 supplies power to 10’s of millions of people, before this mixup we had 95% of our local needs provided for by hydro with some of the cheapest fees and electrical in the country
and we’re still net exporters of power regionally, now we are crippled with decades of bonds funding the installation of excess power we can’t even use locally but get to suffer the extra pollution and bs making other peoples power, who don’t reimburse us for our expenditures.
There are consequences for eliminating 3rd party non-partisan government accountability boards.
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- Joined
- Dec 28, 2011
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- 5,092
Ever think there is a reason people are declining the PHEVs? How about the pitfalls addressed by the manufacturers? Issues? ok, fix em. Then I may want to buy in. Entice me, the consumer not to push down my throat with inaccurate claims of saving the planet. Isn't that what other producers have to do?
So your answer is Gov't to the rescue? That is simply not the reality of how government often works. If the government was sincere it there be partnerships and we'd be developing infrastructure with corporate partners to have EV's charged while driving on highways or parking at supermarkets, malls, etc... Where's the supportive tech from govt? Future mandates but many seem unfunded.
And where are the legitimate conversations from social justice warriors who support EV's? Sourcing the necessary elements for EV manufacturing is an ugly word and that is being kind so not to raise ire of mods. Massive hypocrisy in my view. It's like dating a fierce feminist who then expects the man to pay the full bill for dinner. Where do you stand?
I used to think that hydro storage was silly but it makes a lot of sense as either a backup and/or to “time shift” wind or solar. I understand that power plants need to operate at near peak for highest efficiency, so some power plants just go offline at night when demand is low.
Some of the backup is supposedly rather dirty sources.
PHEVs from a consumer standpoint have much more demand than EVs , you need look no further than days for sale, some popular models are under a couple weeks which is unheard of in the current market where some models have a 200 day to sale metric.
Look closer and you will find that PHEVs are produced in prohibitively low volumes.
Your other nonsense about SOJs is a societal issue where nobody can think logically about an issue and migrate to extremes. (Yourself included)
Lithium is already obsolete as is cobalt, EV materials will be less of an issue than the materials used to build a pc or cell phone in a couple years.
Sodium batteries are already entering consumer vehicles overseas and eliminate most of your concerns.
Similarly the amount of rare earths in EVs has been already going down for a decade, permenent magnet motors are being replaced with plain AC.
My states issues are due to capitalism run amok, many monopolies like power have to be regulated with a heavy hand or they will game the system to extract an increasing amount of profit even in a shrinking market.
No different than for profit medical, it’s not possible unless you only want 10% of people to use it.
There is no need for oxygenates in modern fuel injected engines, the testing I’ve seen for their use is 4 decades old.Really? LOL! Do your homework before posting!
I work with MtBE daily. The rest of the world knows this and utilizes this. MtBE is the best oxygenate! The corn lobby and enviros took this best choice away from the consumer.
Sound familiar?
Recent testing shows they are of no benefit or within the margin of error on modern cars. Only place this isn’t true is small gas engines, which also are the last place you want oxygenated fuel since it tends to foul and form lacquer more rapidly. (MTBE fuel from what I remember was just as bad at aging as ethanol)
Similarly the mandated EPA tune to “fire off your cat” more rapidly in -20F weather where you run extremely rich burning double the fuel to make less emissions has repeatedly been found to be faulty once the car has about 50,000 miles as it dramatically increases benzene, VOC, CO2 and other emissions while only slightly improving the time to get the cat up to temp.
EVSEs and j-connectors are designed specifically to seal the contacts and eliminate sparking. Saying an EV sparks more than a spark ignition vehicle is silly.
Half the time I encounter someone smoking while filling a plastic gas can in their trunk. It is no wonder we occasionally have a blowout.
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There are no easy answers. Especially with oil demand providing money to various dictators and despots around the world. Even if 100% of all oil is sourced domestically, oil is a fungible commodity where demand affects worldwide prices.
We live in an imperfect world where we balance the positives and the negatives of everything.
Really? LOL! Do your homework before posting!
I work with MtBE daily. The rest of the world knows this and utilizes this. MtBE is the best oxygenate! The corn lobby and enviros took this best choice away from the consumer.
Sound familiar?
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OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
No, typical grid planning has contingency planned capacity (I'm sure @MVAR and @Shannow could provide some examples from their areas) which is the amount of instantaneous loss the grid can be expected to tolerate without going down. Here in Ontario, that capacity is 2x Darlington units, or roughly 1,800MW of ~13,000MW of nuclear capacity.
Because there's no outage correlation with thermal plants, and aside from trips, outages are planned so that reserve capacity can be readied and brought online (and this is typically scheduled for periods where demand is going to be low and there's surplus capacity available) there is no need for huge amounts, let alone nameplate capacity, of backup supply.
On the other hand, since wind and solar are both highly correlated sources, you need full nameplate replacement capacity, as the situation in Alberta recently demonstrated, as you cannot rely on any of that capacity being firm supply. You can EXPECT a portion of it to show up, but you cannot RELY on it. This is why Alberta's entire grid can be powered by gas, despite having almost half that nameplate capacity available in wind, the same goes for Texas.
Electricity can spark causing a fire from fuel vapors or gas leak. EV's can catch fire starting more fires. Private business should be the one to decide if they want chargers or not. Government should not get involved.
You mean with widespread government mandates and widespread elimation of ICE vehicle choices?
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
PHES, arguably, has more utility than batteries because of the longer duration storage it provides. However, one must be careful in saying that it could be used to firm wind (which can be gone for weeks at a time) or solar, as the durations of non-generation associated with these sources tend to be much longer than the storage capacity of these facilities.
Raccoon Mountain was built to augment thermal plants. Basically, absorb overnight surplus capacity to use it for peaking capacity during the day. This is quite effective and a solid usage case for the technology.
Maybe charging stations should be mandated diesel generators as backups ... Lol
www.wind-watch.org
Dozens of giant turbines at Scots windfarms powered by diesel generators
Scottish Power admitted 71 of its windmills were hooked up to the fossil fuel supply after a fault developed with their power supply. Dozens of giant turbines on Scotland’s windfarms have been powered by diesel generators, the Sunday Mail can
first of all that would take up a lot of room. and then the cost I have to add all those could put a lot of the small business guys out of business. here we have this new technology that looks cool but it's not going as planned and the enthusiasm from the public is less than stellar. I'd like to think of that people shouldn't have to buy into something that they don't agree with. I'm going to sell what I want to sell because I believe in free market. if I have a good gasoline product or good nachos or the best iced tea at my store I want people to come and buy. not going to carry products that are not going to sell or be slow movers. I want to go back to the 5-speed manual and the direct port injection days!
Contingency reserves are part of the ancillary service market, part on the spin and non spin sections.
The value requirements vary with load but are never to be below 6% of load.
Every mw of PV/wind requires thermal/hydro/other available or “backing up” as stated. This isn’t required for traditional generation.
I just finished nights & am groggy so sorry if this doesn’t make sense.
Here’s a publicly available piece regarding part of the question:
Really? LOL! Do your homework before posting!
I work with MtBE daily. The rest of the world knows this and utilizes this. MtBE is the best oxygenate! The corn lobby and enviros took this best choice away from the consumer.
Sound familiar?
Water quality. I get that MTBE isn’t all that toxic, but MTBE died after several leaks affected groundwater taste. Going back to MTBE is a nonstarter.
