Should gas stations be mandated to have chargers as well?

Torrid said:
After working for a couple of large corporations I'd like them to have a bit of a check in there, but yes for the most part I want them to make what I want. Many aren't because they're incentivized to make more wasteful things they've convinced people they need. Now the government pulls even harder in the other direction and before you know it neither of us will get what we want.
Click to expand...
I'm certainly not opposed to some regulatory bodies like OSHA, the FAA, and such. Even to a degree the EPA. We don't want factories like China. But it becomes a very slippery slope.

The government is no different than children, or an untrained puppy. Give them an inch, and they'll take a mile.
 
billt460 said:
Spoken like a true communist. It's not up to the companies. It's up to the customer. They have to manufacture what the people want, or they won't sustain themselves in business, they'll go broke. It happens every day.

No customers, no companies. Why do you think the government is pumping so much money into all this crap? It's because people don't want it. Certainly not for what it would cost on it's own, without government subsidies.

So they offer them big discounts by paying for most of it with taxpayer money. It's no different than a parent telling his kid, if he eats his broccoli, he can have some ice cream for dessert.

A government subsidy is nothing more than a bribe, to get people to change their minds, and do what you want them to do... Or buy what you think they should be buying. Not because it's "better". Because if it was, they would be choosing to buy it in the first place.... Without the "help" of the government.

And if you are conscious and breathing, and not under the influence of drugs, you would realize that in today's world this government has more than proven it is for themselves..... Not for, "the people".
Click to expand...
Companies are in the business of making money; they are beholden to the shareholders not the public.

In fact, this is the very basis of Capitalism. Adam Smith taught us self interest, prosperity, in the form of profit, was natural for people. But that self interest had limits so market regulation was government's responsibility.

Smith was critical of government and officialdom, but was no champion of laissez-faire. He stated that a market economy would function and deliver its benefits only when its rules are observed. He believed the role of government was for things too big or important for the market to manage.
 
No gasoline station should be forced to install chargers. The is the USA, not North Korea. If the business case is there and EVs really take over the majority of personal transport, the conversion will happen organically.

Personally, I see a use case for EVs in certain situations but the attempt to force the conversion on consumers is ill considered and will backfire. Plus, all the environmental damage is merely shifted from use (internal combustion engines) to production (EVs) given the staggering amount of mining related damage that will be done to obtain minerals. In the fall, the WSJ (not Youtube or Facebook news) reported there is a bog in Canada that will be exploited for minerals for EVs. Widespread disturbance of this bog will release more carbon into the atmosphere than burning the Amazon.

There is always room for people to be sensible and considerate about how they consume and the impact of those decisions. But in my opinion the environmental movement has turned into a semi-religious cult where any economic cost on the individual, or loss of personal freedom, can be justified as a necessary sacrifice on the altar of climate change. Illustrating the absurdity further was another news account in the WSJ that the park service wants to remove, hopefully humanely but if not via euthanasia, wild horses from Yellowstone (I think it was Yellowstone, but would need to refresh - it was one of the big parks out west) for what reason? You guessed it, buried in paragraph 9, climate change. That’s right, a couple hundred wild horses are going to irrevocably damage the climate of planet Earth, age 4billion years old. These people are crazy and the mania to force everyone to buy an EV is a prime exhibit.

Hopefully I haven’t offended anyone with my strong views. But the original question arises out of the current strong push to shove EVs on the American people without any thinking through of the economics or long term consequences.
 
The gas stations should be forced to sell fresh tamales. The real kind, made by someone's grandmother. And fresh sushi, made at order by a real sushi chef. This driving around to multiple places is insane!

This is sarcasm, lest anyone be confused.

You can't force anyone to make or sell anything they don't want. You can use money, etc to incentivize businesses to do something, but not force them.
 
RAVL said:
No gasoline station should be forced to install chargers. The is the USA, not North Korea. If the business case is there and EVs really take over the majority of personal transport, the conversion will happen organically.

Personally, I see a use case for EVs in certain situations but the attempt to force the conversion on consumers is ill considered and will backfire. Plus, all the environmental damage is merely shifted from use (internal combustion engines) to production (EVs) given the staggering amount of mining related damage that will be done to obtain minerals. In the fall, the WSJ (not Youtube or Facebook news) reported there is a bog in Canada that will be exploited for minerals for EVs. Widespread disturbance of this bog will release more carbon into the atmosphere than burning the Amazon.

There is always room for people to be sensible and considerate about how they consume and the impact of those decisions. But in my opinion the environmental movement has turned into a semi-religious cult where any economic cost on the individual, or loss of personal freedom, can be justified as a necessary sacrifice on the altar of climate change. Illustrating the absurdity further was another news account in the WSJ that the park service wants to remove, hopefully humanely but if not via euthanasia, wild horses from Yellowstone (I think it was Yellowstone, but would need to refresh - it was one of the big parks out west) for what reason? You guessed it, buried in paragraph 9, climate change. That’s right, a couple hundred wild horses are going to irrevocably damage the climate of planet Earth, age 4billion years old. These people are crazy and the mania to force everyone to buy an EV is a prime exhibit.

Hopefully I haven’t offended anyone with my strong views. But the original question arises out of the current strong push to shove EVs on the American people without any thinking through of the economics or long term consequences.
Click to expand...
+1 Nicely written.
 
@ SC Maintenance:

You are correct. But between raising the cost of ICE powered cars via extremely high CAFE standards (and other mandated safety equipment) via regulatory mandates, and subsidizing the costs of electric vehicles via tax rebates and other direct government support (see the “Inflation Reduction Act”), they are not mandating EVs but changing (distorting?) the economics so that it is almost tantamount to coercion. Plus I think by 2034 or near that time many states will ban the sale of ICE vehicles. So I think it is fair, on balance, to construe this as coercion of the individual. To paraphrase one of my favorite movies, they are making the consumer an offer he or she can’t refuse.
 
Snagglefoot said:
Gas stations are forced to sell gasoline with ethanol in it.
Click to expand...

In my state they’re mandated to have restrooms if located within a certain distance of an interstate highway, and all are mandated to have pressurized air and water for customers.

However, I don’t see EV charging as a mandate that makes much sense for gas stations, like perhaps disabled parking spots, wheelchair accessibility, etc. I could see it as a mandated requirement for parking lots or garages in newly permitted commercial construction beyond a minimum threshold. Maybe even in new apartments and condos. The details would be important though.
 
It's a fools game to think that they can electrify the transportation in this country. What's the cost to install a charger bank, $150K+? No more Mom and Pops, just big chains. And the big chains still pass on the cost to the franchise owner.

As far as the gas stations being mandated to sell ethanol that is a Federal EPA regulation and that sort of arbitrary quasi lawmaking is currently in front of the US Supreme Court which is inclined to gut the EPAs power along with all the other government regulatory agencies.
 
Again as far as mandating that gas stations have charging stations for EV's, why? If the station feels it would be a good economic investment, then they'll do it on their own.

Yes, "gas stations sell energy". But they do it for a profit. Not to be hospitable. Same goes for charging stations. If they can make money by doing it, they will. They don't need the government to force them.

The fact is that today it wouldn't be profitable for them. At least not at this point with so few EV's on the road. Later perhaps.
 
The EV “mandates” are heading down a dangerous road-paid for by a (basically bankrupt) government, with a steadily declining in value currency. Forcing an expensive, unsustainable model on the country. Not enough generation capacity, not enough grid to get it there-whether gas stations are forced to have chargers or not is really a moot point, like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. Insanity.
 
bullwinkle said:
The EV “mandates” are heading down a dangerous road-paid for by a (basically bankrupt) government, with a steadily declining in value currency. Forcing an expensive, unsustainable model on the country. Not enough generation capacity, not enough grid to get it there-whether gas stations are forced to have chargers or not is really a moot point, like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. Insanity.
Click to expand...
kschachn said:
It did pretty much fit the definition.
Click to expand...
Communist and Socialist as used today by people are nothing but trigger words to wind people up.
 
ZZman said:
Communist and Socialist as used today by people are nothing but trigger words to wind people up.
Click to expand...
Sometimes yes. But - No not always. That sounds like words to provide cover against reality.

I mean people throw the words fascism/fascist out - and well, don't even know the definition.

Government forcing businesses to do stuff is what?
 
SHOZ said:
It's a fools game to think that they can electrify the transportation in this country. What's the cost to install a charger bank, $150K+? No more Mom and Pops, just big chains. And the big chains still pass on the cost to the franchise owner.

As far as the gas stations being mandated to sell ethanol that is a Federal EPA regulation and that sort of arbitrary quasi lawmaking is currently in front of the US Supreme Court which is inclined to gut the EPAs power along with all the other government regulatory agencies.
Click to expand...

A Level 2 commercial setup? If it’s uncontrolled like a Tesla Destination Charger, maybe less than $2000 each. Pay systems like ChargePoint get more complicated, but it can’t be more than installing a gas pump.

smartchargeamerica.com

ChargePoint CT4000 Level 2 Commercial Charging Stations

The ChargePoint CT4000 commercial electric vehicle (EV) charging stations charge all electric cars for retail stores, apartments and work locations.
smartchargeamerica.com smartchargeamerica.com

DC fast charging is where it starts getting really expensive because of the equipment costs and all the additional electrical infrastructure.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

DriveHard
40 Amp Level 2 Portable EV Charger - $150
Replies
8
Views
930
DriveHard
T
Charging battery with battery charger?
2
Replies
28
Views
2K
jeffy876
Wrenchturner44
New Gas Stations - Ethanol Select Dispensers
2
Replies
21
Views
1K
Hall
T
tire inflators at all the gas stations are closed down?
2 3
Replies
55
Views
2K
PF52
Back
Top