Should gas stations be mandated to have chargers as well?

[y_p_w]

Government owned businesses now?

No

There are a lot of government owned businesses that "compete" with private businesses.

Public schools compete with private schools.
Public parks and gardens compete with privately owned parks and gardens that charge an admission fee. Heck - some of the public ones charge an admission fee, but receive government funding.
Publicly owned museums.
Municipal utilities.
The United States Postal Service competes with private delivery companies.
Amtrak and other publicly owned passenger rail.
Airports.
Public transit.
Lotteries compete with private gambling.
Public ports.

I'm pretty sure that's not an exhaustive list.

 

[y_p_w]

Gas stations would love more store traffic. Its the majority of their profit. If some owners want to go fancy, they can add in quick eateries inside as well.

The only places this might be a turnoff is urban areas where space is a premium. But even then you still can optimize your locations. Compare how much profit each position on your location is really bringing in. Vacuum and diy car wash in the cities arent that great except the weekend.

I can see this along some heavily traveled interstates, especially if the proportion of EVs go up. And the thing about a lot of these locations right off the freeway is that they tend to be built on big plots of land. Like Lost Hills, California.

Lost Hills · California

California

www.google.com

Not sure if this is something that would be mandated. I'm thinking a better mandate might be Level 2 charging availability in large parking lots.

 

[Greenbeforeblue]

I say make charging stations mandatory at gas stations that have bars on the door and bulletproof glass. That way, EV owners can use that charging time to do "charity work" (ie get robbed). Think globally, act locally

 

[JeffKeryk]

There are a lot of government owned businesses that "compete" with private businesses.

Public schools compete with private schools.
Public parks and gardens compete with privately owned parks and gardens that charge an admission fee. Heck - some of the public ones charge an admission fee, but receive government funding.
Publicly owned museums.
Municipal utilities.
The United States Postal Service competes with private delivery companies.
Amtrak and other publicly owned passenger rail.
Airports.
Public transit.
Lotteries compete with private gambling.
Public ports.

I'm pretty sure that's not an exhaustive list.

Our Military.

 

[y_p_w]

Our Military.

Not sure if they're a business, but they do operate little businesses with subsidies. Like PXs and cafeterias where military members have the option to shop off base. I remember when I was a kid, my dad took me several times to the Presidio of San Francisco and we had lunch there really cheap. It was pretty good too.

I remember when I was big into bicycling, I used to hang around a local bike shop in Berkeley. The owner was actually pretty angry that UC Berkeley had a bike shop in the rec gym that sold to the public. His argument was that their physical location was subsidized by taxpayer and student funding. The other thing about the rec gym was that it was open to the public through a daily, monthly, or annual fee.

 

[JeffKeryk]

The idea of typical gas stations installing chargers makes little sense, unless they have a lot of extra room and something for the vehicle owners to do.

The better location is shopping centers, coffee shops like Starbucks, etc where people spend a little time. I would guess most people charge for 10 to 40 minutes. Adding something more profitable would make investment more attractive. Around here office buildings, hospitals, Walmarts and the like have chargers. Charging while work is a great option.

Currently, it makes sense to locate chargers right off the freeway as most owners charge at home and only need to charge when traveling more of a distance. If and when EV owners do not have at-home charging, more options might make sense.

As for a mandate, even if you were in favor of one, unless there is a demand for chargers, it makes zero sense at best.

 

[alarmguy]

It's silly to suggest that the taxpayer pays for charging stations. This is not a public park nor a public school. More or less only a special class of people get to use a public charging station. Cant even believe I am replying but I am
Already the public is paying for people to buy EVs which are special use for close in suburban and city areas and/or people who can afford an expensive throwaway second car.

 

[proveitwithdata]

It's silly to suggest that the taxpayer pays for charging stations. This is not a public park nor a public school. More or less only a special class of people get to use a public charging station. Cant even believe I am replying but I am
Already the public is paying for people to buy EVs which are special use for close in suburban and city areas and/or people who can afford an expensive throwaway second car.

Should we end e15, e85, b20 and other farm subsidies as well?

 

[SC Maintenance]

Should we end e15, e85, b20 and other farm subsidies as well?

Yes. Immediately.

And the $7500 EV subsidy while were there.

Were distorting the free market.

 

[Pablo]

Yes. Immediately.

And the $7500 EV subsidy while were there.

Were distorting the free market.

Bam. Close thread.

Stop ALL handouts. Now.

 

[y_p_w]

The idea of typical gas stations installing chargers makes little sense, unless they have a lot of extra room and something for the vehicle owners to do.

The better location is shopping centers, coffee shops like Starbucks, etc where people spend a little time. I would guess most people charge for 10 to 40 minutes. Adding something more profitable would make investment more attractive. Around here office buildings, hospitals, Walmarts and the like have chargers. Charging while work is a great option.

Currently, it makes sense to locate chargers right off the freeway as most owners charge at home and only need to charge when traveling more of a distance. If and when EV owners do not have at-home charging, more options might make sense.

As for a mandate, even if you were in favor of one, unless there is a demand for chargers, it makes zero sense at best.

Part of the hesitancy of the public to drive EVs is the availability of charging. I think even those who understand that they're fairly widespread in their own areas are worried about the possibility that there might not be enough at the time when they're needed. We've all seen reports of long lines at peak times, and I have waited for an available Tesla Supercharger at times. That being said, I remember when California had flags at gas stations to display their fuel availability, so there's always that possibility.

So finding a way (whether coercive or even required) to add more EV charging infrastructure might be a means to increasing EV acceptance.

There are also a lot of cross purposes. DC fast charging needs to be fast for ideal utilization, but not everyone preconditions their batteries and many continue to charge past a soft cutoff point. I remember dealing with my parents' new Model 3 and I didn't know that and went to charge it where I just drove there since I knew how to get there. I also charged it to 100% since the delivery of the Mobile Connector was supposedly up to 2 weeks (arrived in 2 days though). And on the road there might also be some range anxiety, so going past an 80% cutoff point is probably fairly common.

The solution is probably just going to be more. There must have been a time when getting gasoline was difficult.

 

[ZZman]

What does this mean?

It means "freedom" doesn't truly exist in modern society. Whether it involves laws or capitalism or anything else.

 

[alarmguy]

Should we end e15, e85, b20 and other farm subsidies as well?

Absolutly!!!! It's all part of the agenda

 

[spk2000]

No let EV grow into it's own naturally. All this taxpayer money thrown at something that is not yet mainstream in most of the country is absurd. It should be able to stand on it's own. Most people including myself don't buy or rent one for range anxiety. They currently are not a great option for long distance travel unless you have loads of time to sit while charging. When they can go 500+ miles on a single charge, recharge in reasonable time maybe 30 minutes or less and be affordable I will pass like many others. Forcing taxpayers to take something that's not able to stand on it's own is crazy.

 

[Snagglefoot]

That is actually not true - at least here.

Refiners are given a quota of the amount of Ethanol they must blend into their mix. If they use their quota they can sell regular E87 as pure gas - thats why the pumps here say "as much as 10%". The quota is set at the first of the year I think, so the actual amount varies a bit. Also gas stations can sell pure gas - they do here - but its more money.

Coercion, yes. Force - no.

Yes, but the quota is a mandate. They are still forced to sell that amount of ethanol.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Part of the hesitancy of the public to drive EVs is the availability of charging. I think even those who understand that they're fairly widespread in their own areas are worried about the possibility that there might not be enough at the time when they're needed. We've all seen reports of long lines at peak times, and I have waited for an available Tesla Supercharger at times. That being said, I remember when California had flags at gas stations to display their fuel availability, so there's always that possibility.

So finding a way (whether coercive or even required) to add more EV charging infrastructure might be a means to increasing EV acceptance.

There are also a lot of cross purposes. DC fast charging needs to be fast for ideal utilization, but not everyone preconditions their batteries and many continue to charge past a soft cutoff point. I remember dealing with my parents' new Model 3 and I didn't know that and went to charge it where I just drove there since I knew how to get there. I also charged it to 100% since the delivery of the Mobile Connector was supposedly up to 2 weeks (arrived in 2 days though). And on the road there might also be some range anxiety, so going past an 80% cutoff point is probably fairly common.

The solution is probably just going to be more. There must have been a time when getting gasoline was difficult.

The important thing is not how many, it's location location location. Tesla installs new Superchargers based on demand.

 

[alarmguy]

Part of the hesitancy of the public to drive EVs is the availability of charging. I think even those who understand that they're fairly widespread in their own areas are worried about the possibility that there might not be enough at the time when they're needed. We've all seen reports of long lines at peak times, and I have waited for an available Tesla Supercharger at times. That being said, I remember when California had flags at gas stations to display their fuel availability, so there's always that possibility.

So finding a way (whether coercive or even required) to add more EV charging infrastructure might be a means to increasing EV acceptance.

What hesitancy? and why does EV need more acceptance? Because someone said so?
If EV is a solution for someone let them pay for it.

 

[alarmguy]

It means "freedom" doesn't truly exist in modern society. Whether it involves laws or capitalism or anything else.

Well, yeah it does exist but freedom is majority rules besides the protections written into our Constitution.
So if the majority says you can only operate a certain vehicle on a public road, you're stuck. Forced into it
If the majority rules you cant pollute the air on your private property you are forced into not being able too or in the typical case companies forced to not sell a product to you that does so.
If the majority rules your farm or private factory can not pollute rivers and ground water, your forced not to.

There never was total freedom to do as you please, more so with public land and resources

 

[y_p_w]

It's silly to suggest that the taxpayer pays for charging stations. This is not a public park nor a public school. More or less only a special class of people get to use a public charging station. Cant even believe I am replying but I am
Already the public is paying for people to buy EVs which are special use for close in suburban and city areas and/or people who can afford an expensive throwaway second car.

The public is paying for charging stations. But it's early and kind of a way to encourage the use of EVs. I remember one provided by the National Park Service when I mentioned I was driving an EV to a ranger and she said where it was (at an office parking lot) where it was free to the public to use. Or state/federal funding.

California Investing in EV Charging Reliability Statewide With $63 Million in Federal Funding | Caltrans

In a boost for electric vehicle reliability, the U.S. Department of Transportation today awarded Caltrans more than $63 million in federal funds to fix and install more than 1,000 chargers at 300 sites statewide.

dot.ca.gov

New Electric Vehicle Fast Chargers Now Available Along State Highways in Central California | Caltrans

Electric vehicle (EV) drivers now have more fast-charging options along state highways in Central California — including at the popular Tejon Pass Rest Area near the Los Angeles/Kern County line

dot.ca.gov

I've seen publicly funded EV charging at a private business as part of a project funded by a local air pollution control district.

The purchase of this charging station was partially funded by Northern Sonoma County Air Pollution Control District

Around California there are counties that pay for freeway patrol. It's a free service (I couldn't even offer a cash tip) paid for by the state (CHP and Caltrans) plus counties to provide basic roadside services such as tire changing or jump starts. They're obviously competing with AAA roadside service and commercial roadside service. I remember the first time I saw one after my tire blew and the operator said he'd change the tire so I didn't have to get my hands dirty. I remember another time I'd just finished putting the spare on my car when one freeway patrol operator looked at me and saw I was done and drove on.

Freeway Service Patrol

www.chp.ca.gov

 

[y_p_w]

What hesitancy? and why does EV need more acceptance? Because someone said so?
If EV is a solution for someone let them pay for it.

I dunno. Localized air pollution? I can smell the unburned fuel when any of my neighbors start a gasoline-powered vehicle. However, a lot of my neighbors now have EVs and PHEVs. I get that it pushes off some of the pollution to utilities, but that's an inherently cleaner and more efficient source of power than an ICE.