Should gas stations be mandated to have chargers as well?

[Torrid]

Sometimes yes. But - No not always. That sounds like words to provide cover against reality.

I mean people throw the words fascism/fascist out - and well, don't even know the definition.

Government forcing businesses to do stuff is what?

The problem is like he said is that they're trigger words for people who think it is name calling instead of a real debate which ends up meaning there's no give on either side. They aren't even having the same conversation at that time. It's been used as an insult so many times now that it's changed the connotation of the word, even if it's not accurate. That and some might like Socialism. It's harder to get people to say they like Communism though.

I promise I'm not trying to make a political conversation, just referring to the reaction to it, not the conversation itself. I'm not trying to discuss my politics in the process either.

 

[fdcg27]

Should EV charging locations be mandated to offer gasoline as well?
There are gas stations with the space to install a few EV charging points and they'll do so based upon perceived demand. As EV numbers increase there will always be a few folks running around on a low SOC who will need to get twenty or thirty minutes of charge to be sure to make it home. In areas with enough EV traffic, the stations will figure this out for themselves. In areas with limited EV traffic, the installation of charging points would be a money-losing proposition.
Nothing we'd need to mandate.

 

[Torrid]

A Level 2 commercial setup? If it’s uncontrolled like a Tesla Destination Charger, maybe less than $2000 each. Pay systems like ChargePoint get more complicated, but it can’t be more than installing a gas pump.

ChargePoint CT4000 Level 2 Commercial Charging Stations

The ChargePoint CT4000 commercial electric vehicle (EV) charging stations charge all electric cars for retail stores, apartments and work locations.

smartchargeamerica.com

DC fast charging is where it starts getting really expensive because of the equipment costs and all the additional electrical infrastructure.

Level 2 is great for those uses. Unfortunately it's too slow unless it's a few hour or overnight stop. I think this is great for longer shopping runs because I don't like having to rush back out to the car after 20-30 minutes because the DC fast charger is nearly done to move it. I don't know what the difference is between the home charger and the destination charger, but the power delivery is the same. It would be $2,400 for me to have this one at home per the electrician. The setup I'm going with is a more universal 240V which is still requiring me to upgrade the grounds in my garage to the tune of $1,800. I was hoping to be closer to $1,200, but it is what it is and I will be doing it next month when the electrician can get to it. The house was built in 1925, though I do have electricity in the garage, just not a 240V outlet, though it does have 240V in the garage junction box which is saving me some cost.

 

[ZZman]

Sometimes yes. But - No not always. That sounds like words to provide cover against reality.

I mean people throw the words fascism/fascist out - and well, don't even know the definition.

Government forcing businesses to do stuff is what?

It's called regulations and laws. It's not owning a business. Society as we know it runs because of control: rules, laws, regulations, in fact our lives have been controlled since birth.

 

[SHOZ]

A Level 2 commercial setup? If it’s uncontrolled like a Tesla Destination Charger, maybe less than $2000 each. Pay systems like ChargePoint get more complicated, but it can’t be more than installing a gas pump.

ChargePoint CT4000 Level 2 Commercial Charging Stations

The ChargePoint CT4000 commercial electric vehicle (EV) charging stations charge all electric cars for retail stores, apartments and work locations.

smartchargeamerica.com

DC fast charging is where it starts getting really expensive because of the equipment costs and all the additional electrical infrastructure.

I'm assuming a fast charger otherwise it's not comparable to stopping and getting gas. You have to have the electrical (feed and supply) installed for how ever many you have. Code is 100% of capacity plus 20%. That means big transformers and big wire buried and a lot more generating capacity.

For the most part the gas station will disappear and parking lots with something to do within walking distance as you wait for the charge.

 

[drtyler]

It's called regulations and laws. It's not owning a business. Society as we know it runs because of control: rules, laws, regulations, in fact our lives have been controlled since birth.

What does this mean?

 

[Pablo]

It's called regulations and laws. It's not owning a business. Society as we know it runs because of control: rules, laws, regulations, in fact our lives have been controlled since birth.

???? Rules of fairness, laws for weights and measures are indeed a purpose of a well functioning government.

Forcing a business to sell something is neither fair or just. It may not necessarily be the worst aspect of any -ism, but it is wrong.

 

[y_p_w]

I'm assuming a fast charger otherwise it's not comparable to stopping and getting gas. You have to have the electrical (feed and supply) installed for how ever many you have. Code is 100% of capacity plus 20%. That means big transformers and big wire buried and a lot more generating capacity.

For the most part the gas station will disappear and parking lots with something to do within walking distance as you wait for the charge.

I really think the future is going to be far more Level 2 charging everywhere rather than concentrations of DC fast charging. It’s better for battery longevity.

 

[ecotourist]

It would be $2,400 for me to have this one at home per the electrician. The setup I'm going with is a more universal 240V which is still requiring me to upgrade the grounds in my garage to the tune of $1,800. I was hoping to be closer to $1,200, but it is what it is and I will be doing it next month when the electrician can get to it. The house was built in 1925, though I do have electricity in the garage, just not a 240V outlet, though it does have 240V in the garage junction box which is saving me some cost.

My level 2 installation in the garage for the Tesla (parts and labour) cost almost exactly $500 Cdn. Installed by a journeyman electrician too.

The difference may be that we have a 200 Amp service.

 

[ZZman]

???? Rules of fairness, laws for weights and measures are indeed a purpose of a well functioning government.

Forcing a business to sell something is neither fair or just. It may not necessarily be the worst aspect of any -ism, but it is wrong.

How about instead of mandating that private gas stations have to have chargers that we decide that we need x chargers in every county and they are government-owned. Better?

 

[drtyler]

How about instead of mandating that private gas stations have to have chargers that we decide that we need x chargers in every county and they are government-owned. Better?

Government owned businesses now?

No

 

[demarpaint]

Let the gas station owners decide for themselves. Do they really want EVs taking up space for up to an hour or more? Let them decide.

 

[Torrid]

My level 2 installation in the garage for the Tesla (parts and labour) cost almost exactly $500 Cdn. Installed by a journeyman electrician too.

The difference may be that we have a 200 Amp service.

Yeah, that's what is it is. My garage is detached and at this time I only have 30A 240V to the garage and the outlet needs to be on the opposite of the garage from where the junction box is. It was done at a time when grounding wasn't required and on top of that the whole house other than a couple of upgrades is only 2 wire. I don't know what the previous owners did fully with the garage but it must have a ground somewhere because the car does charge. Usually Teslas reject charging if it can't find a ground even on 120V from my understanding.

 

[ZZman]

Government owned businesses now?

No

How about we as a nation build them and private business runs them? Better?

 

[SC Maintenance]

Gas stations are forced to sell gasoline with ethanol in it.

That is actually not true - at least here.

Refiners are given a quota of the amount of Ethanol they must blend into their mix. If they use their quota they can sell regular E87 as pure gas - thats why the pumps here say "as much as 10%". The quota is set at the first of the year I think, so the actual amount varies a bit. Also gas stations can sell pure gas - they do here - but its more money.

Coercion, yes. Force - no.

 

[ZZman]

Let the gas station owners decide for themselves. Do they really want EVs taking up space for up to an hour or more? Let them decide.

If they are convenience store stations like most are they could increase sales while people are waiting. Remember fast charging is on the way!

 

[SC Maintenance]

@ SC Maintenance:

You are correct. But between raising the cost of ICE powered cars via extremely high CAFE standards (and other mandated safety equipment) via regulatory mandates, and subsidizing the costs of electric vehicles via tax rebates and other direct government support (see the “Inflation Reduction Act”), they are not mandating EVs but changing (distorting?) the economics so that it is almost tantamount to coercion. Plus I think by 2034 or near that time many states will ban the sale of ICE vehicles. So I think it is fair, on balance, to construe this as coercion of the individual. To paraphrase one of my favorite movies, they are making the consumer an offer he or she can’t refuse.

I don't disagree. The federal government withheld road money in the 70's for states that wouldn't implement a 55mph speed limit. They only send school funding to schools that implement education policies they stipulate.

I am just saying you can't FORCE a individual business owner to sell anything. Everyone has their price however.

 

[demarpaint]

If they are convenience store stations like most are they could increase sales while people are waiting. Remember fast charging is on the way!

Yes, but let the owner decide, if and when. They might not want to pony up the money and tie up parking space for cars that want to get in and out fast, buy a pack of smokes and a coke and go. Bottom line it should be the decision of the owner of the business, not uncle Sam.

 

[Pablo]

How about we as a nation build them and private business runs them? Better?

No.

Incentives MAY work

(Already) Tightly regulated power companies can sell power to stations/outlets at cost, rock bottom cost. IF stations want to have chargers they can, and can charge what the market will bear.

Gov role? Set safety standards for the chargers.

 

[proveitwithdata]

If they are convenience store stations like most are they could increase sales while people are waiting. Remember fast charging is on the way!

Gas stations would love more store traffic. Its the majority of their profit. If some owners want to go fancy, they can add in quick eateries inside as well.

The only places this might be a turnoff is urban areas where space is a premium. But even then you still can optimize your locations. Compare how much profit each position on your location is really bringing in. Vacuum and diy car wash in the cities arent that great except the weekend.