Should gas stations be mandated to have chargers as well?

[John105]

This is what irritates me the most about all of this EV nonsense. None of it should be mandated. If people want these things, they'll buy them.

If they don't, they shouldn't be forced to by ANY form of government mandate. Or by putting time limits on how long ICE vehicles can be legally produced and sold. Once again we have the government sticking its nose where it doesn't belong. All based on that same line of crap..... "For the common good".

If EV's are so fabulous, they should be able to kill off ICE, based on the benefits they provide, by simply being better...... Much like LED bulbs have taken over the market from incandescents. And transistors took over the vacuum tube market.

These things are no "greener" than an asphalt parking lot. Even the government should be smart enough to know that.

Totally agree with you on mandates. Nobody mandates that we should get a V8 and appreciate the smoothness and inherent balance. Why haven't V12s and inline 6's been mandated by now, they have primary and secondary balance.

The LED headlamps is a real pet peeve of mine. Right now, when one of those cars is on an incline, it's blinding to oncoming traffic.

I decided to look at my own car. It's a 2006 with HID Xenon, adaptive.

The lamps are relatively bright, maybe not as many lumens as a LED. But they don't glare at all. The car has adjusted them. Maybe that is coming. I do see headlamps being moved down, even on the 2025 Tahoe/Suburban. The new trend is where headlights are, are just slivers and DRLs. Headlamps are mid bumper.

 

[Big cat]

Most quick stop gas stations do not have enough space for parking a bunch of EV's to charge them.
I've seen more gas stations close up and disappear than new ones built. Its going to take grocery store type parking lots to
meet the charging needs of EV's. Hmmm even large restaurants should get in on the EV charging model, then the folks can have a nice meal while they wait.

I've seen one of the local gas stations / convenience stores convert some of their parking spaces to EV charging stalls. I presume they would not have done this if they didn't think they could make money. I don't ever recall seeing all the parking spaces in use at that location in the past so I doubt they are losing out on any other opportunities by converting some of the parking spaces to EV Charging stalls.

 

[Torrid]

Totally agree with you on mandates. Nobody mandates that we should get a V8 and appreciate the smoothness and inherent balance. Why haven't V12s and inline 6's been mandated by now, they have primary and secondary balance.

The LED headlamps is a real pet peeve of mine. Right now, when one of those cars is on an incline, it's blinding to oncoming traffic.

I decided to look at my own car. It's a 2006 with HID Xenon, adaptive.

The lamps are relatively bright, maybe not as many lumens as a LED. But they don't glare at all. The car has adjusted them. Maybe that is coming. I do see headlamps being moved down, even on the 2025 Tahoe/Suburban. The new trend is where headlights are, are just slivers and DRLs. Headlamps are mid bumper.

You should check out the lighting systems available in Europe. They aren't legal here yet at least. Our lighting regulations are written for the dipped beam setup we're used to. The new ones have clusters of LEDs that can be strategically shut off to keep from blinding oncoming traffic but retain light that helps the driver see further. It's like a more advanced automatic dipped beam.

Headlights on trucks are high, but nearly all seem really high to me with my cars. Trucks and large SUVs low beams are blinding still. It gets really bad with illegal aftermarket bulbs, those are truly retina destroying. I can deal with the factory ones, but it's still uncomfortable at times on dark undivided highways.

 

[John105]

You should check out the lighting systems available in Europe. They aren't legal here yet at least. Our lighting regulations are written for the dipped beam setup we're used to. The new ones have clusters of LEDs that can be strategically shut off to keep from blinding oncoming traffic but retain light that helps the driver see further. It's like a more advanced automatic dipped beam.

Headlights on trucks are high, but nearly all seem really high to me with my cars. Trucks and large SUVs low beams are blinding still. It gets really bad with illegal aftermarket bulbs, those are truly retina destroying. I can deal with the factory ones, but it's still uncomfortable at times on dark undivided highways.

btw what happened to HID Xenon....too expensive and outdated? I do know in the pecking order, they use less energy than halogen, but more energy than LED.

They frankly work great. On my Japanese car the swivel equally. But on my German car, the left headlamp will not swivel to the left, as much as the right headlamp does. I assume it's reversed for right hand drive. I'm a bit crazy but I like having a headlamp warning stickers under the hood showing a stick figure being electrocuted

And again not for mandates they usually don't work well

 

[John105]

No one has mandated anything outside of some overzealous states. CAFE is tightening and car companies are offering EVs trying to compete with Tesla to raise their CAFE numbers. That could be considered a form of mandate, but making more efficient cars would get there too which is the main angle Toyota has taken.

If car companies wanted to side step some of the EV stuff they could probably make a few more small efficient cars for the people that want them and complain new cars are just too expensive these days. Price increases and cancelling smaller models at the same time made some big leaps. There's just not as much meat on the bone for the auto manufacturers to make entry level cars and they don't seem to want to make cars with less profit margin. I think GM is the only US company actually attempting it, though they're small crossovers. They know more than I do on that though, I'm not a buyer but that's probably the best way to sell them.

Speaking of which, my buddy is interested in a Chevy Trax. From one article I read, it's highly rated.

Most people in his position wouldn't buy a car like that. He's got 4 kids and needs to keep his expenses down. He is far from an entry level salary.

How many people would exclude small efficient cars, due to the lack of prestige? We always beat around the bush on this topic. An EV is prestigious. Exudes success, wealth, and intelligence. Like those oil filters that cost a lot and the oil to go with them. It completely ignores marginal benefit is > marginal cost.

 

[Torrid]

btw what happened to HID Xenon....too expensive and outdated? I do know in the pecking order, they use less energy than halogen, but more energy than LED.

They frankly work great. On my Japanese car the swivel equally. But on my German car, the left headlamp will not swivel to the left, as much as the right headlamp does. I assume it's reversed for right hand drive. I'm a bit crazy but I like having a headlamp warning stickers under the hood showing a stick figure being electrocuted

And again not for mandates they usually don't work well

HIDs are just a bit more finicky. I'm sure it's more expensive too. The process of firing them up with a burst of power and pulsing to maintain them just adds a bit of complication where while they're more efficient than halogens, I think the LEDs are a bit more efficient still. LEDs are more resistant to shock and impact as well.

I always liked HIDs. I've had two cars with them. A 2006 Jaguar that had them factory. Never had an issue. I also retrofitted a set into my 2004 GTO. That was a bit finicky since it didn't have the boosted power supply to them for the initial start like an OEM setup would, but I ran an extra capacitor in line before the ballast which took care of it. I even had the higher end Morimoto stuff, but if the car prompted the headlights on while starting sometimes one would fail to fire, where the Jaguar would just not attempt to turn the lights on while cranking. With the Jaguar if the lights were on it would interrupt them and then turn the lights back on once started. I should have run a relay on the GTO to do the same and I likely would never have had a problem. Any issue could be fixed by switching the lights off and then turning them back on to refire the lights. I always liked that initial bulb warming effect. I think that'll be a retro touch people like down the road when collecting cars of that era.

 

[Torrid]

Speaking of which, my buddy is interested in a Chevy Trax. From one article I read, it's highly rated.

Most people in his position wouldn't buy a car like that. He's got 4 kids and needs to keep his expenses down. He is far from an entry level salary.

How many people would exclude small efficient cars, due to the lack of prestige? We always beat around the bush on this topic. An EV is prestigious. Exudes success, wealth, and intelligence. Like those oil filters that cost a lot and the oil to go with them. It completely ignores marginal benefit is > marginal cost.

Yeah there's probably something to that. If you look the most popular small cars tend to be performance models from German or Japanese manufacturers that hold a bit of brand cache for those types of cars. I'm guilty of that. Regular small cars seem to be from Toyota at least in my area which many hold in high regard for reliability. US brands are known for their trucks, so I think that's why they usually don't do well selling small cars, it's just not what is expected of them. Those new body style Trax are selling like crazy. They came out and were instantly everywhere. I live in a small town and I see a couple of them every time I leave the house. The Buick Envista is everywhere too. I think those are on the same platform.

 

[billt460]

No one has mandated anything outside of some overzealous states. CAFE is tightening and car companies are offering EVs trying to compete with Tesla to raise their CAFE numbers. That could be considered a form of mandate, but making more efficient cars would get there too which is the main angle Toyota has taken.

If car companies wanted to side step some of the EV stuff they could probably make a few more small efficient cars for the people that want them and complain new cars are just too expensive these days. Price increases and cancelling smaller models at the same time made some big leaps. There's just not as much meat on the bone for the auto manufacturers to make entry level cars and they don't seem to want to make cars with less profit margin. I think GM is the only US company actually attempting it, though they're small crossovers. They know more than I do on that though, I'm not a buyer but that's probably the best way to sell them.

Mandates + CAFE + Government Subsidies = Nothing but government intervention into the private sector, at the taxpayers $$$ expense $$$.

By forcing, or else steering citizens, (with taxpayer money as bait), to purchase what the government wants them to. All while using their tax dollars to help fund their agendas, with said subsidies that amount into nothing more than wasteful taxpayer ripoffs.

I shouldn't have to help pay for your EV, solar panels, windmill, water heater, or anything else. They've done it with wind, (and still are). They've done it with solar, (and still are). And they're doing it with EV's, (and still are). This is not how free enterprise works.

There is nothing per say that is wrong with offering incentives..... As long as it comes from the people and companies who are making the products.... NOT the government.

 

[Torrid]

Mandates + CAFE + Government Subsidies = Nothing but government intervention into the private sector, at the taxpayers $$$ expense $$$.

By forcing, or else steering citizens, (with taxpayer money as bait), to purchase what the government wants them to. All while using their tax dollars to help fund their agendas, with said subsidies that amount into nothing more than wasteful taxpayer ripoffs.

I shouldn't have to help pay for your EV, solar panels, windmill, water heater, or anything else. They've done it with wind, (and still are). They've done it with solar, (and still are). And they're doing it with EV's, (and still are). This is not how free enterprise works.

There is nothing per say that is wrong with offering incentives..... As long as it comes from the people and companies who are making the products.... NOT the government.

I don't agree with it either which is why I didn't back out of the purchase when the credit went away like many did at the end of 2022.

 

[Shel_B]

If EV's are so fabulous, they should be able to kill off ICE, based on the benefits they provide, by simply being better...... Much like LED bulbs have taken over the market from incandescents. And transistors took over the vacuum tube market.

If you walk into a store, you won't find any of the traditional incandescent light bulbs originally patented by Thomas Edison. Earlier this year, a federal law went into effect, eliminating the sales of most incandescent and halogen lighting products.

But beyond the new federal regulations, some states already have additional lighting requirements in place — eliminating even more lighting products.

A state by state look at light bulb bans [Interactive map]

More states are moving forward with light bulb restrictions. Here's a state by state look at the new laws.

insights.regencysupply.com

 

[dubber09]

Well, if you follow what's happening at WEF (World Economic Forum, a.k.a. World Enslavement Forum) - they want to outlaw fishing and hunting as fish and wildlife 'have constitutional rights' and it's a crime to kill fish/animals.... not kidding you.
Also, they want to ban farming and to resolve employment issue for ex farmers - to imprison all of them, not kidding either...

Please, stop mandates.

 

[Dave P.]

Why different in NJ? Can't pump your own gas?

Nope. Self serve is a no-no in NJ. We have people for that!

 

[ZZman]

Should EV charging stations be mandated to sell gas?

How about we keep the "mandates" to a minimum in this country?

Would it

Mandates + CAFE + Government Subsidies = Nothing but government intervention into the private sector, at the taxpayers $$$ expense $$$.

By forcing, or else steering citizens, (with taxpayer money as bait), to purchase what the government wants them to. All while using their tax dollars to help fund their agendas, with said subsidies that amount into nothing more than wasteful taxpayer ripoffs.

I shouldn't have to help pay for your EV, solar panels, windmill, water heater, or anything else. They've done it with wind, (and still are). They've done it with solar, (and still are). And they're doing it with EV's, (and still are). This is not how free enterprise works.

There is nothing per say that is wrong with offering incentives..... As long as it comes from the people and companies who are making the products.... NOT the government.

Companies don't always do what is best for people, environment, country. Government is for people, by people to hopefully look for the common good.

 

[billt460]

If you walk into a store, you won't find any of the traditional incandescent light bulbs originally patented by Thomas Edison. Earlier this year, a federal law went into effect, eliminating the sales of most incandescent and halogen lighting products.

But beyond the new federal regulations, some states already have additional lighting requirements in place — eliminating even more lighting products.

A state by state look at light bulb bans [Interactive map]

More states are moving forward with light bulb restrictions. Here's a state by state look at the new laws.

insights.regencysupply.com

The difference is they aren't persuading anyone "away from" incandescents. No one in their right mind would be choosing to burn 100 watt incandescents light bulbs, when they can get more and much cooler lumens from a 8 or 12 watt LED.... Unless they were stuck in a time warp.

The bottom line is government intervention isn't needed for good products. You only see this when political agendas are being pushed on the buying public. Enter EV's, solar, and wind.

You don't see people trying to special order 25" picture tube console TV's anymore. Or try to buy The Righteous Brothers on 8 Track Tape either.

Good products do not need or require government intervention to get established. They'll capture the free market because they are simply BETTER.... And usually cheaper at the same time.

Many people prefer gas powered lawn and garden equipment. They have large properties that require the power and longevity gas provides.

But in comes California with their "green" agendas, and they will no longer sell them. Once again the government dictating what the private sector can have or not have. Because they, "know what's best". When in reality all they know is how to waste taxpayer money. They've got that down to a science.

 

[billt460]

Would it

Companies don't always do what is best for people, environment, country. Government is for people, by people to hopefully look for the common good.

Spoken like a true communist. It's not up to the companies. It's up to the customer. They have to manufacture what the people want, or they won't sustain themselves in business, they'll go broke. It happens every day.

No customers, no companies. Why do you think the government is pumping so much money into all this crap? It's because people don't want it. Certainly not for what it would cost on it's own, without government subsidies.

So they offer them big discounts by paying for most of it with taxpayer money. It's no different than a parent telling his kid, if he eats his broccoli, he can have some ice cream for dessert.

A government subsidy is nothing more than a bribe, to get people to change their minds, and do what you want them to do... Or buy what you think they should be buying. Not because it's "better". Because if it was, they would be choosing to buy it in the first place.... Without the "help" of the government.

And if you are conscious and breathing, and not under the influence of drugs, you would realize that in today's world this government has more than proven it is for themselves..... Not for, "the people".

 

[ZZman]

Spoken like a true communist. It's not up to the companies. It's up to the customer. They have to manufacture what the people want, or they won't sustain themselves in business, they'll go broke. It happens every day.

No customers, no companies. Why do you think the government is pumping so much money into all this crap? It's because people don't want it. Certainly not for what it would cost on it's own, without government subsidies.

So they offer them big discounts by paying for most of it with taxpayer money. It's no different than a parent telling his kid, if he eats his broccoli, he can have some ice cream for dessert.

A government subsidy is nothing more than a bribe, to get people to change their minds, and do what you want them to do... Or buy what you think they should be buying. Not because it's "better". Because if it was, they would be choosing to buy it in the first place.... Without the "help" of the government.

And if you are conscious and breathing, and not under the influence of drugs, you would realize that in today's world this government has more than proven it is for themselves..... Not for, "the people".

Communist?.... Hilarious!

 

[Torrid]

The difference is they aren't persuading anyone "away from" incandescents. No one in their right mind would be choosing to burn 100 watt incandescents light bulbs, when they can get more and much cooler lumens from a 8 or 12 watt LED.... Unless they were stuck in a time warp.

The bottom line is government intervention isn't needed for good products. You only see this when political agendas are being pushed on the buying public. Enter EV's, solar, and wind.

You don't see people trying to special order 25" picture tube console TV's anymore. Or try to buy The Righteous Brothers on 8 Track Tape either.

Good products do not need or require government intervention to get established. They'll capture the free market because they are simply BETTER.... And usually cheaper at the same time.

Many people prefer gas powered lawn and garden equipment. They have large properties that require the power and longevity gas provides.

But in comes California with their "green" agendas, and they will no longer sell them. Once again the government dictating what the private sector can have or not have. Because they, "know what's best". When in reality all they know is how to waste taxpayer money. They've got that down to a science.

It's funny you mention the 100w incandescent bulb. I had one in my garage when I first moved in. I knew the bulb was bright, but the day it burned out I replaced it with an LED 75 watt equvalent, which if I remember off the top of my head is around 14 watts actual. I think it might have been even brighter than the 100 watt after replacing it. I didn't know what the rating was on that bulb when until I replaced. Funny how technology advances.

 

[billt460]

Communist?.... Hilarious!

Why? You trust the government over private enterprise. Why should either have to, "look out for you"? How about you look out for yourself? If private enterprise doesn't keep you happy, they'll go broke.

The government on the other hand, couldn't care less either way...... Unless it's something they think you should have.....

 

[Torrid]

Why? You trust the government over private enterprise. Why should either have to, "look out for you"? How about you look out for yourself? If private enterprise doesn't keep you happy, they'll go broke.

The government on the other hand, couldn't care less either way...... Unless it's something they think you should have.....

After working for a couple of large corporations I'd like them to have a bit of a check in there, but yes for the most part I want them to make what I want. Many aren't because they're incentivized to make more wasteful things they've convinced people they need. Now the government pulls even harder in the other direction and before you know it neither of us will get what we want.

 

[billt460]

It's funny you mention the 100w incandescent bulb. I had one in my garage when I first moved in. I knew the bulb was bright, but the day it burned out I replaced it with an LED 75 watt equvalent, which if I remember off the top of my head is around 14 watts actual. I think it might have been even brighter than the 100 watt after replacing it. I didn't know what the rating was on that bulb when until I replaced. Funny how technology advances.

When we moved into this house almost 5 years ago, I had an extra outlet on my garage ceiling that one of my my door openers plugged into. I installed a 4 watt LED, and did the same in an outlet by the washer and dryer as nightlights.

That was close to 5 years ago. They are both illuminating 24/7 just like the day I put them in. 8 watts total and they provide enough light for a 3 car, 938 sq. ft. garage.

5 years translates into around 43,800 hours, and still going strong.