Short trips - best change cycle?

[brueggma]

Greetings, I've been lurking for a few months, but this is my first post.

I have a vq35 and a EcoTec 2.2 that experience very short trips twice a day. Approximatly 4 miles to the train and 4 miles back home.

I've done searches and found that short trips cause acid build up which may damage the engine. So I've extended the 4 mile trip to 30mins. Yes, I let the engine idle up to 10mins before I start off in the morning, a 10mins drive, and let the car idle for another 10mins before I turn it off.

I'm getting tired of wasting money on gas, and letting the car idle, but I'm worried about damage to the engine. Do you think the engine even gets to normal operating tempurature for very long when it's just idling? Is this a waste?

Next issue is oil type, and change interval. I'm currently using Amsoil's TSO, changing it twice a year. Before and after winter time. Should I just save my money and get PP 0w-30, and change the oil four times a year? This would flush out the acidic oil on a more frequent basis and same me money over the TSO.

I have yet to do an oil analysis because I'm not sure what baseline to use. I keep changing my mind on what oil I should use. No thanks to this board!

Thanks Gents!

 

[ThirdeYe]

Is it at all possible to drive the car for 30 minutes to an hour on a weekend to help burnoff condensation/fuel dilution? That's what I would do.

 

[Lonnie]

You should cut the idle time. It does not generate enough heat to be useful except in the winter if you need the heater, but never at the end of your trip. A uoa for your situation does not need a baseline to get started and you can consider it a learning process to justify the expense, especially for one during the winter. You are using a good oil but a couple of uoa's would nail it down for you. Also follow ThirdeYe's advise, drive each car for 30 minutes each week to warm everything up, if you can. What you lean with a couple of uoa's can be useful for the rest of the life of your cars and for your next one as well.

 

[Brett Miller]

The idle is bad. Just hop in and drive.

 

[Lorenzo]

Quote:

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Yes, I let the engine idle up to 10mins before I start off in the morning ... and let the car idle for another 10mins before I turn it off.

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My goodness, that's over 80 hours a year! Even if it were good for the engine (it's not) is it really worth the equivalent of 2 weeks vacation from work a year?

The best thing to have a short warmup, and drive conservatively unless/until you've been going 15 or 20 minutes. Get a UOA from Blackstone or the equivalent and follow their advice about OCI, viscosity, etc.

And quit worrying so much.

 

[Eddie]

Anything over 5 minutes idling is bad. I would start the car, put on seat belt and drive (20-30 seconds). Once a week run the car for a minimum of 10 miles on the expressway. Stop & go traffic is not the bast but, a long, no stop highway run at 60-75 mph.

 

[Pablo]

1 - stick with Amsoil ,but change to ASL or HDD or ACD.
2 - Start engine, idle for 30 seconds or so.
3 - Drive 4 miles to train. Park car.
4 - Drive home 4 miles. Park car.
5 - Drive other places as required.
6 - Stop worrying.

 

[salvageyardteen]

Quote:

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1 - stick with Amsoil ,but change to ASL or HDD or ACD.
2 - Start engine, idle for 30 seconds or so.
3 - Drive 4 miles to train. Park car.
4 - Drive home 4 miles. Park car.
5 - Drive other places as required.
6 - Stop worrying.

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7 - If you cant do 6 then install a by-pass filter

 

[Camu Mahubah]

I agree with Pablo but I wish he would have gave recommendations on how long to run the oils he listed...I think lots of idiling is just as bad as short trip driving...The oil does need to get up to operating temp so start using all that gas you have used idiling for weekend romps...nah mean?

 

[ARB1977]

Forget about it. Im just about to hit 6 months and 5000 miles in my fairly short driven Tacoma. 9 miles city driving to work. On my days off i take her on the freeway but nothing major. When January hits im going to do my first uoa.

 

[Pablo]

Go six month OCI's. Longer with UOA.

 

[Lonnie]

And if in doubt and you're really worried you could save up some money and change the oil an extra time or two. There are no set guide lines for really short run driving and to 'err on the side of changing it too often might be better than running a normal interval.

 

[ericthepig]

brueggma,

You should spend $22.50 to get a UOA done w/ Blackstone labs (they will send you a sample kit for free). You think you're having fuel dilution and acid issues. It's probably chemically impossible to have acid issues with Amsoil at 2 OCIs/yr. I myself have a short trip vehicle that I was sure would be having fuel dilution (or other short trip issues) - I finally did a UOA - NO issues! So, don't assume you know the chemistry taking place inside your engine. Spend a little $ and settle the issue.

Then, if it's the case you have some dilution or water building up, then as stated previously - hit the highway every other week for an evaporation run (wkly is not needed).

Note, for some vehicles idling is REALLY bad - it causes "cylinder wash" w/ fuel - which then goes into the oil. Long idling warmups is "wisdom" passed down from g-pa (and it's still a prevalent assumption) but this is one case where they had it wrong.

 

[ericthepig]

brueggma,

imo the following is just about a given -

Transfer some of that time you've been spending idling and start doing evaporation runs twice/mo. (In fact, if you're diving 10 min to work, then just take the scenic route occassional and do an occassion hiway evap. run). At the end of six months get a UOA. Here's what it's almost certain you'll find - Your throwing away excellent oil that is just hitting it's stride in its life cycle. With the limited miles you're running, if you condition the oil on a regular basis with evap runs or longer commutes - your amsoil is likely in excellent condition at six mo. and will still be in good condition at the end of a 1 yr OCI.

Amsoil once/yr. UOA once every few years.

If you can't deal with 1 OCI/yr, then getting a UOA will tell you (almost certainly) that Amsoil can sleep walk thru your 6 mo OCIs.

 

[brueggma]

One more stupid question if you don't mind. Basically, to keep the oil from building up water (acid), I just have to get the oil to 212F or better on a consistent basis? Which is the boiling point of water.

So in theory, I could take a meat thermometer after each 5 mile run to get a proper reading of how far I need to drive for my particular car and outside temperature?

 

[02zx9r]

you are taking this way to far. get on the highway once a week and set the cruise at 65-70mph and go 10 minutes then turn around and and drive 10 minutes back home.
problem solved

 

[simple_gifts]

Quote:

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I just have to get the oil to 212F or better on a consistent basis? Which is the boiling point of water.

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Water will be driven from the oil at temperatures lower than boiling; it is simply an evaporative process.

 

[Gary Allan]

I wouldn't be so critical of idling if it was only on the tail end. On the front end you're surely in a fuel enrichment state. On the tail end you probably are not (or close to the end of it).

Idling, in the absence of a fuel management problem, isn't all that bad aside from it being wasteful. The main thing is that it skews your mileage calculations for your OCI since you're getting zero mpg in the process.


If you're in reach of a plug, a block warmer would surely yield savings in many ways.

The HDD and ACD will surely go the year in TBN. I can't say that your UOA will be pretty with any oil ..but those two oils will probably handle the service without breaking a sweat (from the oil's standpoint)

As everyone else has said (what's one more?) get a UOA when you change your oil. It doesn't matter what's in there now.

Don't worry. Although I'm pretty sure you're going to have an elevated wear profile, your contemporaries will probably have 4X the mileage. You're someone who might actually have an engine/rest of the chassis match for life span.

 

[ARB1977]

My commute is 18 miles round trip with a .25 mile freeway time and on the weekends i make sure i take it on the freeway.

 

[virginoil]

Down under I don't have really cold winters, over the years some tips I have come across are below

Rug up and don't put the heater in the car on until the engine gets close to operating temperature.

(Survival tip. If you have the BOSS and kids in the car you will need to ignore this, I suggest you go for a 5 min drive to preheat the car before you load them up in car so you can put the heater on)

Maximum idle 30 secs to 1 min. (What does your User Manual say)

Get on the road ASAP take the long way to the station, say 7 miles, keep revs to 1500 max whilst crusing and warming up on the road. Do the same for the reverse trip.

(ie Instead of idling 20 mins reduce to 1 min max and drive 7 to 8 mins longer, take the scenic route unless with the BOSS and kids)