Shell says not all Group III is the same

[LouDawg]

I did a pretty thorough search on SOPUS' web site and couldn't find the MSDS for PP other than for the Hybrid 0W-20. Don't know if it's the same as the regular (non-hybrid) or not. But under CAS#, it showed "mixture" for Synthetic Hydrocarbon Base Oil ingredient...no CAS#. Same for the Proprietary Additives. It DID however show the CAS# for the ZDDP: 68649-42-3.

Anyone know if it's the same as non-hybrid PP? Or where I can see it?

 

[rcy]

If the CAS # on an oil's MSDS comes up as 'proprietary', what does this mean? Some sort of secret skunk works area 51 kind of oil?

 

[Bryanccfshr]

It means they know that competitors and consumers are checking the MSDS's to compare ingredients. MSDS's are getting more vague to protect this information. All The MSDS has to explain by law is the hazards associated with the material and its physical properties as well as environmental precautions.

 

[Shannow]

Of course Shell's GrIII is better than the "inferior" group IIIs when they tell us about it.

 

[Merkava_4]

I just hope no one starts comparing Mobil 1 to Fram oil filters; all hel will break loose then.

 

[nascarnation]

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I just hope no one starts comparing Mobil 1 to Fram oil filters; all hel will break loose then.

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Every time I see a car broken down on the side of the road I stop and check under the hood. 99% of them have Fram oil filters

 

[wavinwayne]

Don't use Rotella T synthetic. It's made wax, and we all know what will happen.......

 

[G-MAN]

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For anyone who says a switch from PAO to Group III is fine, here's some Shell info that all Group III base stocks are not the same.


"It is true that ROTELLA T Synthetic is Group III (not PAO) based, but you must keep in mind that not all Group III base oils are created equal. ROTELLA T Synthetic is made with Shell's XHVI base oil, which unlike other Group IIIs does not begin as distilled crude oil, hence of all Group III base oils, XHVI is truly the only one that can legitimately be called "synthetic." XHVI is a wax isomerate, meaning that it is made from the slack wax removed from distilled crude in normal solvent dewaxing. This slack wax is catalytically transformed (isomerized) and hydrofinished into a chemically pure base oil which rivals PAO in virtually every category. There are other "synthetic" oils out there based on Group III, but Shell's is unique in that it uses XHVI base oil. Chevron and Petro-Canada produce Group III base oils that come close to XHVI, but even though these oils are all hydroprocessed and utilize the same type of isomerization technology employed in the making of XHVI, they are not the same thing. Only XHVI is made from pure petroleum slack wax and its CAS number is 92026-09-4. The CAS number for the more typical all-hydroprocessed Group III base oils is 64742-54-7. If you want to know what your "synthetic" oil is made from, take a look at the MSDS and look for these numbers. (The CAS number for PAO is 68037-01-4)."

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I think I posted this on the Rotella forum about four years ago, so it isn't "from Shell," though I got an e-mail from Peter Van Benthuysen at the time confirming the accuracy of what I wrote.

 

[427Z06]

Additional CAS numbers for Hydrocracked Hydroisomerized Group III: 178603-64-0, 178603-65-1, 178603-66-2

Additional CAS numbers for PAO: 68649-12-7, 68037-01-4, 163149-29-9, 151006-63-2, 151006-62-1, 151006-60-9

 

[glenncof]

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No, Castrol Syntec is a REAL fake sythetic; mobil is a Fake fake synthetic.

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Oh. Thanks for this clarification ! Let me go ask my vehicle if it wants fake fake or real fake.

 

[bar1]

So it's all about telling if the con man is fake or real

 

[ewetho]

Gets back to trust and that GRPII vs GRPIV steak thing again. In this case do you want GRPIII Ribeye or GRPIII ANGUS Ribeye. They will at least tell you what they use and where it comes from. They are not afraid of the local Yocal going out and cracking his own version of PP which would never happen, but Mobil still want tell you if you are getting Sirloin or Filet Mignon.

Stick with who will have an honest discussion with you not years of marketing from a company that really no longer exists as it was taken over by another.

 

[Pablo]

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For anyone who says a switch from PAO to Group III is fine, here's some Shell info that all Group III base stocks are not the same.


"It is true that ROTELLA T Synthetic is Group III (not PAO) based, but you must keep in mind that not all Group III base oils are created equal. ROTELLA T Synthetic is made with Shell's XHVI base oil, which unlike other Group IIIs does not begin as distilled crude oil, hence of all Group III base oils, XHVI is truly the only one that can legitimately be called "synthetic." XHVI is a wax isomerate, meaning that it is made from the slack wax removed from distilled crude in normal solvent dewaxing. This slack wax is catalytically transformed (isomerized) and hydrofinished into a chemically pure base oil which rivals PAO in virtually every category. There are other "synthetic" oils out there based on Group III, but Shell's is unique in that it uses XHVI base oil. Chevron and Petro-Canada produce Group III base oils that come close to XHVI, but even though these oils are all hydroprocessed and utilize the same type of isomerization technology employed in the making of XHVI, they are not the same thing. Only XHVI is made from pure petroleum slack wax and its CAS number is 92026-09-4. The CAS number for the more typical all-hydroprocessed Group III base oils is 64742-54-7. If you want to know what your "synthetic" oil is made from, take a look at the MSDS and look for these numbers. (The CAS number for PAO is 68037-01-4)."

---

I think I posted this on the Rotella forum about four years ago, so it isn't "from Shell," though I got an e-mail from Peter Van Benthuysen at the time confirming the accuracy of what I wrote.

---

That is so hilarious - because when I first read this thread, the first thing in my mind? That statement sounds like:

a) something I read on BITOG a few years ago
b) something G-man would write or has written!

It really isn't new news, that's for sure.

 

[BobXRC]

I'm glad this came up again, since it woke me up on CAS #

These CAS #s can be fun!

(#@$%! I sound like my son's 2nd grade teacher

)

I went here: http://msds.walmartstores.com/cache/36155_1.pdf

SuperTech full synthetic looks like 64742-54-7.

If I'm getting this right with the help of Blue99, the best it could be is a base oil of 126 VI. Also shows a good dose of calcium.

 

[Thatwouldbegreat]

Quote:

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Quote:

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Quote:

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For anyone who says a switch from PAO to Group III is fine, here's some Shell info that all Group III base stocks are not the same.


"It is true that ROTELLA T Synthetic is Group III (not PAO) based, but you must keep in mind that not all Group III base oils are created equal. ROTELLA T Synthetic is made with Shell's XHVI base oil, which unlike other Group IIIs does not begin as distilled crude oil, hence of all Group III base oils, XHVI is truly the only one that can legitimately be called "synthetic." XHVI is a wax isomerate, meaning that it is made from the slack wax removed from distilled crude in normal solvent dewaxing. This slack wax is catalytically transformed (isomerized) and hydrofinished into a chemically pure base oil which rivals PAO in virtually every category. There are other "synthetic" oils out there based on Group III, but Shell's is unique in that it uses XHVI base oil. Chevron and Petro-Canada produce Group III base oils that come close to XHVI, but even though these oils are all hydroprocessed and utilize the same type of isomerization technology employed in the making of XHVI, they are not the same thing. Only XHVI is made from pure petroleum slack wax and its CAS number is 92026-09-4. The CAS number for the more typical all-hydroprocessed Group III base oils is 64742-54-7. If you want to know what your "synthetic" oil is made from, take a look at the MSDS and look for these numbers. (The CAS number for PAO is 68037-01-4)."

---

I think I posted this on the Rotella forum about four years ago, so it isn't "from Shell," though I got an e-mail from Peter Van Benthuysen at the time confirming the accuracy of what I wrote.

---

That is so hilarious - because when I first read this thread, the first thing in my mind? That statement sounds like:

a) something I read on BITOG a few years ago
b) something G-man would write or has written!

It really isn't new news, that's for sure.

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Probably not new, and maybe it isn't Shell after all. I just came across it here :

http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/s...ge=0#Post838490

I thought it was interesting to focus on the fact that all Group III may not be/ are not the same.

And it reminded me how many Castrol / Mobil 1 defenders take the attitude that 'who cares if they use Group III in place of PAO'.

The statement that started the this thread reinforces to me that basestocks matter.

 

[buster]

TWBG, M1 is using Group III+, AN, PAO and POE in M1. A very good blend of base oils.

 

[Thatwouldbegreat]

Here's one MSDS that shows three grades of Shell XHVI:

http://www.shelldubai.com/industrial/msds/shell-base-oils-casno-92062-09-4.pdf

 

[Don Stefanik]

A proof is a proof. What kind of a proof? It's a proof. A proof is a proof. And when you have a good proof, it's because it's proven.
Jean Chretien.

 

[Thatwouldbegreat]

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TWBG, M1 is using Group III+, AN, PAO and POE in M1. A very good blend of base oils.

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And M1 might still be a good oil...maybe even better than before.

I'm still unhappy with M1's handling of the situation and the response to customers.

But I am certainly open minded, and I could believe that a mix of Group III+, PAO, AN, and POE could have advantages over PAO/ POE or Dibasic Ester.

I wonder why M1 isn't pimping 'New' Mobil 1 Quattro Synthetic?

 

[buster]

TWBG, I agree with you.