Switched to Rotella Synthetic from Mobil 1
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XHVI
Will add that to the testing list. Hope to do M1 0W40 SS, Delvac 1, BP Visco 5000 5W40 syn, and the Shell if I can find it. We are well overdue for some testing. Two broken ribs (karting) and laser correction on one eye hasn't helped.
Will add that to the testing list. Hope to do M1 0W40 SS, Delvac 1, BP Visco 5000 5W40 syn, and the Shell if I can find it. We are well overdue for some testing. Two broken ribs (karting) and laser correction on one eye hasn't helped.
XHVI,
That oil is 17.99 bucks a gallon at Walmarts around here. One of them are not priced right it seems.
Ken,
Phillips has a Diesel HDII 15/40 and 10/30 with the SL designation oil with around 1600 PPM of ZDDP and about the same or more Phos yet results in only 1.0 percent sulphated ash. Do you know how they do this in terms of formulating ?
I believe it might have some moly in it as well
That oil is 17.99 bucks a gallon at Walmarts around here. One of them are not priced right it seems.
Ken,
Phillips has a Diesel HDII 15/40 and 10/30 with the SL designation oil with around 1600 PPM of ZDDP and about the same or more Phos yet results in only 1.0 percent sulphated ash. Do you know how they do this in terms of formulating ?
I believe it might have some moly in it as well
If you're talking about the Rotella Synthetic, it used to be that here too. About six weeks ago they did one of their "rollbacks" and the price is now $12.88 a gallon. I was at a Wal-Mart in another state this past week and it was $12.88 there. I think maybe the price will eventually get rolled back at all stores.
The Rotella T Synthetic is $12.99/gal at my WalMart.
ZDDP and ZDTP (zinc dithiophosphate, zinc dialkyldithiophosphates, and others) are zinc-phosphorus compounds. Yes phosphorus is the problem, and it's part of the zinc anti-wear additive. Zinc is what we talk about instead of using the full name.
Ken
[ November 18, 2002, 12:54 PM: Message edited by: Ken ]
Ken
[ November 18, 2002, 12:54 PM: Message edited by: Ken ]
FWIW, I've switched to Rotella syn in my wife's car; the owners manual permits the use of 15W-40 above 20F and 5W-30 below 50F. With the Rotella 5W-40 I figure that I've got the spread covered year-round. I change the oil according to the car's Service Indicator lights-@every 9000 miles. At 80000 miles there are no problems to report and any oil consumption is essentially nil.
Boy its been awhile since ive posted here!! i hate moving!! i even had to register another name!!! Darn it!! back to topic-sorry for rambling...
The Shell Rotella T Syn. is as close as we Americans will eVER get to Helix Ultra. I lost (in the move of course!) the stats from a Euro website for Shell Helix 5w-40 and 0w-30. The only differences were (between helix ultra& rotella syn.) 1. helix ultra had a slightly higher VI
2. It had some PAO in it, whereas Rotella T does not. Helix had a slightly lower pour and pumping point etc. probably due to the PAO. seriously though, the differences were minimal. Oh, & the sulfated ash was lower (1.0 for helix ultra v. 1.3 for rotella t syn.).
However, if you own your own oil lube place and auto repair facility, you can buy for $1000 a huge barrel of Shell Helix Ultra 5w-40 from your local distributor. They (Shell U.S.) finally updated their site to include it. I think the barrell is like 55 gal.? I think that works out to about a little less than $5/qt. Not bad if you got the funds-huh? Oh, and ANYONE can buy this stuff-not just businesses.
On another note, I have recently used 0w-40 Mobil 1 and I loved it but, Autozone in my area is having a hard time to continually carry it. So, I decided to look for another PAO-based syn. oil and.....i found it. $21 for a gallon of Kendall GT-1 5w-40. It is SL grade, meets Mercedes Benz-229.3, and ACEA A3, B3. For those of you that for some reason do not like KEndall, they are now owned by Phillips 66, which is now merged w/ Conoco as, ConocoPhillips. Sorry for rambling! Its good, no great to be back!
Chris J.
The Shell Rotella T Syn. is as close as we Americans will eVER get to Helix Ultra. I lost (in the move of course!) the stats from a Euro website for Shell Helix 5w-40 and 0w-30. The only differences were (between helix ultra& rotella syn.) 1. helix ultra had a slightly higher VI
2. It had some PAO in it, whereas Rotella T does not. Helix had a slightly lower pour and pumping point etc. probably due to the PAO. seriously though, the differences were minimal. Oh, & the sulfated ash was lower (1.0 for helix ultra v. 1.3 for rotella t syn.).
However, if you own your own oil lube place and auto repair facility, you can buy for $1000 a huge barrel of Shell Helix Ultra 5w-40 from your local distributor. They (Shell U.S.) finally updated their site to include it. I think the barrell is like 55 gal.? I think that works out to about a little less than $5/qt. Not bad if you got the funds-huh? Oh, and ANYONE can buy this stuff-not just businesses.
On another note, I have recently used 0w-40 Mobil 1 and I loved it but, Autozone in my area is having a hard time to continually carry it. So, I decided to look for another PAO-based syn. oil and.....i found it. $21 for a gallon of Kendall GT-1 5w-40. It is SL grade, meets Mercedes Benz-229.3, and ACEA A3, B3. For those of you that for some reason do not like KEndall, they are now owned by Phillips 66, which is now merged w/ Conoco as, ConocoPhillips. Sorry for rambling! Its good, no great to be back!
Chris J.
MolaKule
Staff member
"The zinc causing damage to the cat is true, and there are two ways to cure it. One is to reduce the amount of zinc in the oil. The
other way, which the oil companies did, is to reduce the volatility of the oil so the zinc stays in the oil and does not pass through
the engine to the cat.
In one of the Interesting Article's thread I posted:
"In a related article, as far back as 1994, this statement was made in SAE paper 940746,
"Through analysis of the catalyst and sensor surfaces, it is concluded that phosphorous poisons the catalyst and sensor forming a dense coating. BUT Ca and Mg PREVENT PHOSPHOUROUS FROM ADHERING TO THE CATALYSTS AND THE SENSORS AND FROM FORMING THE DENSE COATING."
Me thinks there is way too much hype over ZDDP poisoning when the other additives "mediate" or PREVENT this from happenning. "
[ November 20, 2002, 02:48 PM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]
other way, which the oil companies did, is to reduce the volatility of the oil so the zinc stays in the oil and does not pass through
the engine to the cat.
In one of the Interesting Article's thread I posted:
"In a related article, as far back as 1994, this statement was made in SAE paper 940746,
"Through analysis of the catalyst and sensor surfaces, it is concluded that phosphorous poisons the catalyst and sensor forming a dense coating. BUT Ca and Mg PREVENT PHOSPHOUROUS FROM ADHERING TO THE CATALYSTS AND THE SENSORS AND FROM FORMING THE DENSE COATING."
Me thinks there is way too much hype over ZDDP poisoning when the other additives "mediate" or PREVENT this from happenning. "
[ November 20, 2002, 02:48 PM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]
MolaKule
Staff member
Bell, in a German publication, "reported no detrimental effect on the efficiency of exhaust gas catalysts could be detected with phosphorous content up to 0.13%."
Okay,heres what i found out from Phillips 66 (they make both 76 lubes & Kendall now). They again emphatically state that all of their synthetics are PAO based and not Group III. I too read the MSDS first anf then emailed them because I too thought that it was a group III.
Apparently, theres no real strict guidelines for the MSDS writers (to a degree) and they usually FUBAR and will classify an oil with a generic CAS#. Why? Thats all its takes to satisfy legality and its typical marketing b.s. IMHO.
Heres the email:
All 3 of those products are PAO base oil products. All of our full
synthetics products are blended using the highest quality PAO base oils and
our unique additive systems. These products are fully qualified for BMW,
Mercedes Benz, Porsche and VW.
The only products with a Group III component are the Mercon V ATF's. Some
oil companies label them as "part synthetic" or "semi synthetic". Castrol
won a lawsuit that declared that Group III base oils must be considered
"synthetic" oils. This is a major bone of contention in our industry but,
legally, Group III is synthetic.
Whats odd is that they do list the cas# for PAO in the MSDS for their semi-synthetic oil (both 76 & Phillips.) but not their "ture" synthetic. Why? dunno. Marketing idiots if you ask me. Will we ever know the truth? Nope.
Id use Mobil1 0w-40 again if AutoXone would start carrying it again. None of the AutoZone stores in Atlanta (except 2 or so) have the 0w-40 or will get it (so they say). One store hasnt had a shipment of it since last Sept.! Yet, the Mobil1 website says its now available at AutoZone NATIONWIDE! What a croc!
Also, Phillips 66 also sent me a powerpoint presentation of synthetic oils and they do not even consider groupIII's to be a synthetic. Just esters & PAO's. So, I dunno who to believe. But, since they still own a joint venture with Chevron (unless Chevron had to sell it for its merger w/ Texaco)called, ChevronPillips Chemicals that make PAO's. I would think that they would use PAO from there, but who knows? In this country ANYTHING is possible!
Apparently, theres no real strict guidelines for the MSDS writers (to a degree) and they usually FUBAR and will classify an oil with a generic CAS#. Why? Thats all its takes to satisfy legality and its typical marketing b.s. IMHO.
Heres the email:
All 3 of those products are PAO base oil products. All of our full
synthetics products are blended using the highest quality PAO base oils and
our unique additive systems. These products are fully qualified for BMW,
Mercedes Benz, Porsche and VW.
The only products with a Group III component are the Mercon V ATF's. Some
oil companies label them as "part synthetic" or "semi synthetic". Castrol
won a lawsuit that declared that Group III base oils must be considered
"synthetic" oils. This is a major bone of contention in our industry but,
legally, Group III is synthetic.
Whats odd is that they do list the cas# for PAO in the MSDS for their semi-synthetic oil (both 76 & Phillips.) but not their "ture" synthetic. Why? dunno. Marketing idiots if you ask me. Will we ever know the truth? Nope.
Id use Mobil1 0w-40 again if AutoXone would start carrying it again. None of the AutoZone stores in Atlanta (except 2 or so) have the 0w-40 or will get it (so they say). One store hasnt had a shipment of it since last Sept.! Yet, the Mobil1 website says its now available at AutoZone NATIONWIDE! What a croc!
Also, Phillips 66 also sent me a powerpoint presentation of synthetic oils and they do not even consider groupIII's to be a synthetic. Just esters & PAO's. So, I dunno who to believe. But, since they still own a joint venture with Chevron (unless Chevron had to sell it for its merger w/ Texaco)called, ChevronPillips Chemicals that make PAO's. I would think that they would use PAO from there, but who knows? In this country ANYTHING is possible!
Add Conoco brand products to the list of brands of ConocoPhillips, as well as the Phillips66, 76, and Kendall brands you mentioned. They also market under the Coastal, Exxon, Mobil, and Circle K brands in certain states...wonder who makes the lubes sold in those stations?
http://www.phillips66.com/brands/other.htm
Ken
http://www.phillips66.com/brands/other.htm
Ken
Let me attempt to help.
Phillips is dropping oils that was avaiable right and left because of this merger. The 10/40 Turbo and the 15/40 Series 3000 HD oils with 30percent PAO are but a couple of them. Kendall has been tossed around and neglected and Conoco/Phillips plans are to resurect them big time so I hear. It is also rumoured that a entire new line will be layed out to the public come the first of the year. Conoco has slept on a supposed very good PAO PCMO because of their agreement with Ford Motorcraft to not actively market Conoco oils towards the comsumer. Phillips already had a nice 5/30 synlube and a very good PAO blend in a 10/30 wt.
Some of the reading at the Trop Artic site is about gasoline but I believe the reference to Coastal is to include the PCMO and Gear oil if not mistaken.
As to the Union 76 ? They might no longer be a company,,they are all moving from California to Oklahoma and will be based out of Ponca City even though Phillips was originally located in Bartleville and the Bigwigs I understand will remain in Houston to some that I know's delight
Others in the oil Industry probably can add to this but by 10-15-03 the 1/2 of the Paralubes Plant in Louisiana will not be owned by Pennzoil and Conoco/Phillips will have to share that plant with other owners as I understand it to be .
So I do not doubt the MSDS on the sites may not be correct for awhile,much like the Chevron/Texaco merger and the Havoline and Chevron sheets did not match
[ November 21, 2002, 04:11 PM: Message edited by: dragboat ]
Phillips is dropping oils that was avaiable right and left because of this merger. The 10/40 Turbo and the 15/40 Series 3000 HD oils with 30percent PAO are but a couple of them. Kendall has been tossed around and neglected and Conoco/Phillips plans are to resurect them big time so I hear. It is also rumoured that a entire new line will be layed out to the public come the first of the year. Conoco has slept on a supposed very good PAO PCMO because of their agreement with Ford Motorcraft to not actively market Conoco oils towards the comsumer. Phillips already had a nice 5/30 synlube and a very good PAO blend in a 10/30 wt.
Some of the reading at the Trop Artic site is about gasoline but I believe the reference to Coastal is to include the PCMO and Gear oil if not mistaken.
As to the Union 76 ? They might no longer be a company,,they are all moving from California to Oklahoma and will be based out of Ponca City even though Phillips was originally located in Bartleville and the Bigwigs I understand will remain in Houston to some that I know's delight
Others in the oil Industry probably can add to this but by 10-15-03 the 1/2 of the Paralubes Plant in Louisiana will not be owned by Pennzoil and Conoco/Phillips will have to share that plant with other owners as I understand it to be .
So I do not doubt the MSDS on the sites may not be correct for awhile,much like the Chevron/Texaco merger and the Havoline and Chevron sheets did not match
[ November 21, 2002, 04:11 PM: Message edited by: dragboat ]
MolaKule
Staff member
"...and will classify an oil with a generic CAS#"
Not sure what you or they mean by a generic CAS. Each CAS number points to a specific
chemical.
Not sure what you or they mean by a generic CAS. Each CAS number points to a specific
chemical.
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