What if...? A German Syntec question

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I read that on non-Syntec containers too. I simply think it means that the product contained within is only licensed for sale in N.A. by Castrol N.A.. ie. Castrol N.A.'s license (probably issued by Castrol World Headquarters) permits them to sell this oil in N.A. only and not outside of N.A....ie. Castrol E.U. sells oil in Europe and there must be a S. American branch (along with others) as well...guess separate licenses were needed for the TWS 10-60!
 
Why would they make it so difficult? Does Mobil do this...or Shell? While they may have Mobil NA and Mobil EU or whatever, I think Mobil will sell any of their products anywhere in the world there is demand for them without all this elaborate licensing stuff. It seems to me this allows shenanigans like selling REAL synthetic in Europe at big bucks and then, using name recognition, selling us lesser stuff here. For example, do we really believe that the SLX they are selling in Europe is the same formula that they sell here for $5. (I do not know what the tax differential is on petroleum products that might account for some of the price difference.) If someone answers well they are willing to take the hit to gain a foothold in a market currently dominated by M1. Well, then, what do they do if that works, continue to take losses just to build and hold market share? I doubt it. I think they either may be selling us lesser stuff up front or they will eventually raise the price or "dumb down" the current formula if it is the real thing. I just can't get out of my mind, if this is the real SLX why restrict it under a North America only marketing scheme. Ever seen a bottle of M1 that says, "Not to be sold outside of..." I WANT to believe we are getting the GENYOOWINE European stuff but I can't get the price differential and the marketing restictions to make sense in my mind.

PS One other possibility if this is the REAL stuff; they may do sort of the reverse of what I said above. If European customers start yelling "Foul" because Castrol is selling $11 oil to us for $5, they could just say (true or not), "Psst, it is a different formula." Since it can't be sold in Europe someone would have to go to some real effort to bring it back and check it out.
 
YZF,

I disagree...you can have a product that works FOR NOW, but with the way Castrol seems to do business, do we know what we are getting 3 months from now? Yes M1 has changed their formula multiple times but I don't think Mobil has been surrounded by near the controversy and uncertainty that Castrol has and so I don't believe people "worry" about "what happens next." Do I still want my 0W30...you bet...do I have confidence that I will have it for awhile or that I think I understand where Castrol is headed...huh uh.

PS Please hop
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over to the thread "Castrol NA's Definition of Synthetic..." and see what I mean.

[ July 24, 2003, 09:33 PM: Message edited by: pscholte ]
 
quote:

Originally posted by pscholte:
For example, do we really believe that the SLX they are selling in Europe is the same formula that they sell here for $5. (I do not know what the tax differential is on petroleum products that might account for some of the price difference.) ... I WANT to believe we are getting the GENYOOWINE European stuff but I can't get the price differential and the marketing restictions to make sense in my mind.

A couple of things to keep in mind: Castrol Formula SLX and Mobil 0w40 are roughly the same price in Europe, yet we pay significantly less for both here in the U.S. Second, the retail price on virtually any item sold in the EU is almost 40% taxes, and on petroleum products it's over 50%.
 
p, I don't have any illusions about the marketing practices of Castrol or any other firm. Let me spell it out: all this hand-wringing about what Castrol might do is just wasted energy. We know what we know about the German oil based on an email to Patman which ostensibly describes the physical characteristics, we have two VOAs, two UOAs, and maybe a few ambiguous or even uninformed responses from Castrol sales/tech reps. That's it.

The truth is in the analysis. As long as the UOAs demonstrate that this oil, or any oil, is doing what you want, then use it. When it fails to do that, or the Next-Best-Thing comes along, then go with that flow. Castrol pulls a fast one? Then just move along.

As above, a UOA is a UOA, and the ones we've seen look promising. Who cares what it's made of, where it's made, what it's called, how it smells, which wavelengths of the visible spectrum it reflects? The proof's in the ppms.
 
quote:

Originally posted by YZF150:
p, I don't have any illusions about the marketing practices of Castrol or any other firm. Let me spell it out: all this hand-wringing about what Castrol might do is just wasted energy. We know what we know about the German oil based on an email to Patman which ostensibly describes the physical characteristics, we have two VOAs, two UOAs, and maybe a few ambiguous or even uninformed responses from Castrol sales/tech reps. That's it.

The truth is in the analysis. As long as the UOAs demonstrate that this oil, or any oil, is doing what you want, then use it. When it fails to do that, or the Next-Best-Thing comes along, then go with that flow. Castrol pulls a fast one? Then just move along.

As above, a UOA is a UOA, and the ones we've seen look promising. Who cares what it's made of, where it's made, what it's called, how it smells, which wavelengths of the visible spectrum it reflects? The proof's in the ppms.


Gee...you want to take all the fun out of this.
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I wasn't going to bring this up, but since Castrol has given cause for concern in the past about the way they market things and given the things expressed in this thread....on the top of my case of German Castrol is a little box bordered in red ("Warning, Will Robinson, Warning") that looks like what those little surgeon general warning boxes on cigarettes. It says:

No license is granted or is implied by the sale of this package or contained in relation to any trade mark owned by Castrol Limited anywhere in the world outside North America.

What's that all about? To my simple mind it sounds like they are saying, "We are not claiming this to be the REAL Castrol, it is just stuff we licensed for sale in North America and allowed them to use the Castrol name and trademark."

If I am offbase, please someone, set me straight!!!

[ July 24, 2003, 12:34 PM: Message edited by: pscholte ]
 
...and I was enjoying delving into the esotery of the mysterious and aromatic Castrol elxir...
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This is merely conjecture.....but I think that castrol doesn't want the SLX and the Syntec getting near each other. Most people don't know what SLX is, they don't know what PAO/esters are, and they don't know the difference between GIII's and true synthetics. Castrol wants an ACEA A3 oil in america to compete with Mobil 1, but they do not want people to know that it is formulated differently than the rest of the syntec line.....as most people think that syntec is as good or better than Mobil 1 (due to marketing), and most people are skeptical of 0wXX oils anyway, and will not purchase them regardless of the base stocks (unless they want the ACEA A3 rating, or own a european car that calls for that weight).
 
I work for BP. Castrol is now part of BP. I found on some of their internal sites that SLX is definately PAO. Furthermore, in Germany the ONLY oil that can be sold as synthetic is PAO, nothing else. Their claim, SLX is their best oil.
Also, the pour point was listed as -56 but now I can not honestly remember if that was C or F.

Les
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quote:

Originally posted by Les:
I work for BP. Castrol is now part of BP. I found on some of their internal sites that SLX is definately PAO. Furthermore, in Germany the ONLY oil that can be sold as synthetic is PAO, nothing else. Their claim, SLX is their best oil.
Also, the pour point was listed as -56 but now I can not honestly remember if that was C or F.

Les
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Does that mean that it is not a primarily ester based oil as most people assume?
 
quote:

Originally posted by Les:
I work for BP. Castrol is now part of BP. I found on some of their internal sites that SLX is definately PAO. Furthermore, in Germany the ONLY oil that can be sold as synthetic is PAO, nothing else.

Baloney. There are plenty of ester based sythetics sold in Germany that are labeled as synthetic. And for SLX to have a pour point of -81°F, the base oil blend HAS to be primarily esters. The rest could be PAO (or even Group III), but so long as the PRIMARY component is Group V or Group IV, it can be labeled a synthetic in Germany.
 
Gearhead,
quote:

This is merely conjecture.....but I think that castrol doesn't want the SLX and the Syntec getting near each other.

I think you are right on. Pure marketing. And they do need an A3 oil, hence Syntec 0w-30. What does Syntec really mean? Nothing, but a 'synthetic' brand name.

I work for IBM. Once we invest in a name like WebSphere (which was once just our web apps server) eventually everything has WebSphere in it. Just good marketing, even if it does override the orginal marketing message somewhat.
 
quote:

Originally posted by pscholte:
Why would they make it so difficult? Does Mobil do this...or Shell? While they may have Mobil NA and Mobil EU or whatever, I think Mobil will sell any of their products anywhere in the world there is demand for them without all this elaborate licensing stuff. It seems to me this allows shenanigans like selling REAL synthetic in Europe at big bucks and then, using name recognition, selling us lesser stuff here. ...

Actually, Mobil does do this. I sent an email to them asking which oils are the same world-wide, & the reply was that their 0W-40 is their only "global" oil. Seems kinda like a giant "shell-game," doesn't it?
 
I think it fills a void in their retail Syntec lineup - an European rated oil, A3 etc. If there were no European cars here, they would not even think about it. Secondly, they can do this with little to no investment. Thirdly, they really do not want to cannibalize their higher profit normal Syntec line by promoting their lower margin item. Fourth and final, I suspect that the quality of the 0w-30 is quite hush hush even within Castrol North America for fear of the word spreading out and the beans being spilt.
Cannibalization is the key issue though.
 
I also think that German made Syntec is here to fill a void in Castrol lineup and to compete with Mobil 1's European formula 0W-40. They didn't have A3/B3 oil in that weight and obviously there is a market for this type of oil.

I seriously doubt that they will introduce Group III Syntec in that weight that will meet ACEA A3/B3. It takes money to do research and development and probably there are indications that it will be very hard to meet these specs.
Do you know of any Group III oils in that weight that meet these specs?

If at some point I'll find out that it is indeed Group III oil I may look for alternatives and will probably watch UOAs closely to see how it works.
 
More than once, I've voiced my suspicions over Castrol's "business model," but I do have a couple of questions (if these have been asked before, please steer me to the thread): (1) do we know FOR CERTAIN that there is nothing in Castrol's Group III formulations (e.g. specially derived base oils or a very special additive package, some portions of which might not be identified in UOAs) that make them more expensive to produce, hence distancing them in price from Group II and Group II/III mixes? Seems to me I recall when I lived in Europe in the early 80s that a certain well-known worldwide oil company was selling hydrocracked oil at the same price in Europe as Mobil 1 (then called Mobil SHC in Europe)...maybe it was an expensive formulation even though it was hydro (2) do we know FOR CERTAIN that it is the Castrols, the Valvolines, the Pennzoils etc that are the "pricing bandits" with their Group III "synthetics," or are the auto parts places taking advantage of the situation and getting a little more markup themselves?

[ August 17, 2003, 07:17 PM: Message edited by: pscholte ]
 
It depends...they can use "investment money" taken out of their profit margin, they can use advertising funds that they would have spent any way or they can pass the cost directly through to the consumer by raising prices. I don't know which they do.

[ August 17, 2003, 07:25 PM: Message edited by: pscholte ]
 
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