Severely sludged 2001 Avalon 3.0 and ARX-ideas?

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Originally Posted By: BrianWC
I agree w/ drivewaytech. Figure out the PCV system. It HAS to have one. As for the cleaning, ditto. If he has the time, pull the pan and valve cover and get as much crud out by hand as is possible to do safely. Then resume arx-ing. Sure arx could probably take it all out eventually, but if you're THAT worried that it faces imminent death, go ahead and give it a helping hand. Try a spray bottle and fill with Chemtool and try to wipe off w/ a rag. There was a guy on here about a year or so ago that did the kero thing on a yota and he had to drop the pan several times to clean it out.



I think this is a good approach to take. If you can at least get the valve covers off, you could remove a bunch of sludge by hand. I don't know enough about these engines to suggest what else to remove.

I'd also look at the PCV system and try to find that valve.
 
I'd keep going with Auto-Rx. I might even try two bottles. The oil has to be getting into the combustion chamber somehow. It may not be through the PCV system, but that would be my first stop on finding where it enters.

I would also consider a heavy cycling in (something like) 3rd gear from power to vacuum over a few miles. I speculate that the rings are decoking and that they're still stuck ..but have decent gaps in them. There may be enough vacuum at idle to not allow vapors out of the dipstick tube at idle.
 
Thanks, Gary. Right now, he wants to do a couple of short oil/filter change intervals (ARX "rinses")to see if that will help slow consumption- sort of recover from the first dose of ARX. Seems harmless enough. I don't want to do more than he is willing because I don't want to be the guy that breaks the camel's back so to speak. At least for now, his wife, my wife's sister, has a car that is still running well, even if it is running on thin ice.

I am concerned about putting too much ARX back really soon because that is when the oil consumption spiked up so radiacally. However, some good things have happened since the first bottle was put in. Oil light is now staying off completely with the engine running. (Hope that continues, obviously.) Oil smoke from the tailpipe is supposiedly less(?) frequent than before, which is sort of hard to understand since it is consuming much more oil now.

I will consider all of the advice given. Thanks.
 
Quote:
I don't want to do more than he is willing because I don't want to be the guy that breaks the camel's back so to speak.


LOL.gif
They need someone to blame if it all falls through
LOL.gif


I understand completely.

Quote:
At least for now, his wife, my wife's sister, has a car that is still running well, even if it is running on thin ice.


If it's running good otherwise, what's the beef. Most people who are having to add that much oil are living with oil slicks on the driveway and smoke pouring out of every available outlet. All she has to do is remember to add a couple of quarts of oil every few days. I too would probably try an HDEO ..but it depends on who's adding it. Gallon jugs can be cumbersome.
 
I think the oil is going past the oil rings, when the engine is off idle. With the rpm up more oil is thrown onto the cylinders and because more fuel/air is consumed the oil is diluted and burned if not in the engine then in the cat. conv. so you don't see smoke. I would use more Auto Rx and keep adding oil. You need to get the oil control rings cleaned up, or the converter, and o2 sensors may fail.
Ted
 
PCV location is passenger side, near the top, should be a straightforward elbow style valve. Get a hose too. Dealer should have it as well as the valve. Hose looks great externally, but internally can be plugged solid.

There's a thread about a guy who was in a similar situation with the same car and problems. He pulled the pan, Auto-Rxed, kerosened, scraped, etc. and might give you some insight. I'll try and dig it up.
 
Thanks guys for all the ideas so far. I did get a new PCV valve and installed it this evening when he brought the car by. The oil was down a quart already since 2 evenings ago. Thanks to your help, found the PCV valve on the rear bank passenger side corner. The hose was still pulling a vacuum with the engine running. I sprayed some Power Foam in there with it running and then with it shut off let it sit in the hose for a while before reconnecting to the new PCV valve. The old one was totally sludged up and the valve inside was not moving. So maybe this will help his consumption.

My goal here is not a perfectly clean engine inside. That would require a lot of work and time and money. But just to keep things flowing (prevent engine grenade) so he can get some more life out of this car until he decides to upgrade. I'm sure at some point in all this we will have to, or at least should maybe, pull down the oil sump pan and clean everything in sight, with carefull attention to the oil pump pickup screen. I'm gonna leave that decision to him.
 
Originally Posted By: bmwtechguy
Thanks guys for all the ideas so far. I did get a new PCV valve and installed it this evening when he brought the car by. The oil was down a quart already since 2 evenings ago. Thanks to your help, found the PCV valve on the rear bank passenger side corner. The hose was still pulling a vacuum with the engine running. I sprayed some Power Foam in there with it running and then with it shut off let it sit in the hose for a while before reconnecting to the new PCV valve. The old one was totally sludged up and the valve inside was not moving. So maybe this will help his consumption.

My goal here is not a perfectly clean engine inside. That would require a lot of work and time and money. But just to keep things flowing (prevent engine grenade) so he can get some more life out of this car until he decides to upgrade. I'm sure at some point in all this we will have to, or at least should maybe, pull down the oil sump pan and clean everything in sight, with carefull attention to the oil pump pickup screen. I'm gonna leave that decision to him.


So the old PCV was totally clogged up, that would explain why the car was down 2 quarts of oil.

My Dad called me a few weeks ago and said his oil was down 2 quarts. I went and picked him up a PCV, his old 1 was clogged, put a new 1 in, and no more oil peoblems.
 
My Dad bought a Caravan that was building up sludge in the PCV side valve cover. I am almost done with the second rinse.

I had the cover off after the first run and could see it softening the small pieces of carbon up. I will be taking the 2nd rinse filter off at some point.
 
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Sounds like ARX does NOT cause the oil consumption.

It may not be a bad idea to do the Seafoam through the vacuum system before the next oil change to clean the emission system.
By the way, keep doing the ARX on the oil, don't try to flush it or get fancy. The slower the better.

Have a couple more of those PCV Valve handy, they are cheap parts.
 
Good advise JMJNet. ARX will clean the working parts first by design. ARX cleans areas of good oil flow, temperature, and pressure. I would surmize that if the actual key frictional points are cleaned, it is unlikely that the motor will fail, regardless of the visuals.

One important note is to be sure that the oil pumped up to the top end can drain back down to the sump. If not then this motor will never be corrected. If so then it has a good chance. Short OCI's in both the clean and rinse phases, definitely recommended.
 
Rick, not sure what your idea of short oci is, but is 1000-1500 miles short enough? With a filter change at 500-750? Because he is talking about changing his oil every 2-3 weekends which will probably be 500-1000 miles. I told him I would not change oil out if it looks totally clean on the dipstick. Maybe that is not a good indicator?

I am really curious to see if the consumption slows now with a working PCV system.

BTW, he and she are both very happy with the results so far, just a bit concerned about all the oil burning. I'm thinking that a strong fuel system cleaner or something through the PCV hose would help to clean up the intake valves and cc's from all this excessive oil consumption.

Another question I have is it possible that a 6 or 8 oz dose for the next, shortened clean phase might be better than a 10 or 12 oz full dose (5 qt sump)? The reason I say this is that an even slower cleaning than normal might be better when so much potential crud and sludge may get loosened up during the clean phase. Also, I would not feel like we are using up so much of the ARX, having put so few miles on it. I like to maximize its cleaning potential, but draining it out at 750-1500 miles just feels wasteful to me, especially when I've run it longer than 5k miles cleaning dose in relatively clean engines. (I know that is not recommnended.)

Probably a good question for Frank. I will contact him soon. I need to order some more Auto-Rx, too.
 
I would think the 1000 to 1500K OCI's for rinse would be fine in light of the filter change at the half way point. I think if you were to do 2 rinse phases of 1500K, then would run the full bottle on the next cleaning mode.
 
Originally Posted By: bmwtechguy
I am really curious to see if the consumption slows now with a working PCV system.


That's the most important question at this point. If the engine's no longer at the brink of failure, then the slower the clean-up the better.
 
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