wurlitzer, jimbrewer, Alex_V, eljefino: these guys get it, or at least they're willing to admit it
Nevertheless, some of the replies have really (ironically) solidified the point. It's almost coming across as Stockholm Syndrome in some cases which is a very curious phenomenon itself
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
Camrys haven’t burned oil since the 2.4L in 2009
You would be led to think so since the legal action is valid only up to 2008, however that's Toyota trying to get out of covering the entire production of the AZ (bad PR). Official TSBs for 2AZ oil consumption extend to 2011 atleast, or basically the entire production run. IRL, the story that actually matters, every AZ is officially elegible for excessive consumption with no shortage of complaints to back it. The AZ was a middling engine at best and there are plenty of equivalents that suffer
no such problems. Typical overrate.
Originally Posted By: Cujet
I clearly follow your reasoning. However, the assumption that the majority of Honda and Toyota owners are "fanboi's" and in essence, willing to lie, is patently absurd
Thanks for admitting you get the point. Calling them fanbois is not even nessecary. I mena, there's fanaticism and there's outright-propaganda with the sole purpose of driving fanaticism. I wouldn't say fanatics "are willing to lie" so much as being sad (unwitting) victims of manipulation willing to believe and propagate a much more positive reality than exists. If anything, they're willing to lie to themselves. Fandom (not a flattering characterization btw) is every greedy corporations' marketing wet dream and they will propagate [censored] ideology and fluff to acquire it, even sinking to low lows like hiring people to astroturf fan clubs. Irrational behavior such as fanaticism is the very exploit that enables the incredible "forgiveness and grace" of a fan toward a slacking and badly behaved corporate entity. It's the hubris that's so powerful it can induce that Stockholm Sydrome like relationship.
Originally Posted By: pandus13
reply#2
back on topic):
using targeted marketing in pretty much all available media.
Correct, all businesses market.
Toyota, however, markets too hard. They're so invested in keeping the dream alive that they've been royally screwing the 'real-life' part up. It's like they're a drunk/coked-out nutjob rich guy at a party that obviously thinks way too highly of himself and his skill level. You know, the guy so loaded that he thinks he can get any woman he wants and do whatever with em. Some women LOVE buying into that un-backed, juiced-up confidence kinda thing because that type of person is readily influenced by vague, layered optics while others can see right through the charade to a juiced up bag-man propped up with 100% artificial confidence.
Originally Posted By: Smokescreen
I bought my Corolla knowing I was going to mile it out. Fast forward to today and I have 225K miles (360K km) on the odo and the only repair I had done was a water pump under warranty. Just tires...and the oil...I don't have to add any in between intervals...car self-prophesy fulfilled?
Definitely self-fulfilling. Congratulations on your stick-tuitiveness! It's not so rare for any car to reach those clicks with basic work; some might not even need a waterpump under warranty! No one ever said it was a lie, though. Corolla is Toyota's most reliable car IMO and above-average in the segment, but that comes with it's own costs: getting saddled with an automotive troglodyte. Also when Toyota has problems, they often have very stupid and safety related problems. Hard to screw up super-old tooling that doesn't promise much of anything other than "It exists". And stil the Corolla is far, far away from being the ideal or perfect car. All considered, I find it unacceptable myself; Toyota should be doing much better on the product merit front than it is.
But let's just re-acquint ourselves with the moral compass of Toyota Motor Sales, shall we?
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=toyota+tried+to+hide+recalls+defects
Originally Posted By: Wurlitzer
Why is it that we never hear about the "Chrysler reliability myth"? Or the "Ford reliability myth"? I've never seen a book entitled the "Chevy reliability myth". No one has ever said to me "you know, Mercedes really aren't as reliable as every one says."
Honda and Toyota, on the other hand, routinely are mentioned in the same sentence as "reliability".
Well using exclusively domestic examples, for all the Ram Vans, Econolines, Panthers, and Vandura/Savana and all other Domestic fleet vehicles and pickups that find themselves in the latter half of 1M miles, you're not going to find a juiced-up romantic consumer base willing to vocally validate and sing their praises, they'll just die neglected and nameless. For that 500K Festiva or 2.2 Cavalier that serendipitously reachde it's mileage (without being specifically sought out for that purpose), they too will fade into obscurity without a mention. That's the way she goes, bud. Indyian said it: 'Perception is reality'
Originally Posted By: Leo99
Strange how you conflate recalls with reliability. It's just not that way.
Originally Posted By: PandaBear
I really don't get what's the big deal about recall and TSB if the manufacturer foot the bill.
Was there ever an expectation for the manufacturer to NOT foot the bill? It's their
screw-up. Why would
anyone praise Toyota for doing what it's legally obligated to do to remedy their arrogance to rush to market half-baked products?? Regulators and their leagal-team's fears make them do it, not goodwill and customer diplomacy.
Toyota has resources others don't have; massive profits. Toyota can beat everyone elses production cycles
and put out a fully-tested, better qulity product if they wanted to. We all should expect them to be better, and more advanced AND reliable than everyone else, no exception. but they've been scraping by operating in the way a struggling company about to go bankrupt should be operating; getting burned on cost cut components, inadequate testing cycles and selling luddite engineering. Without Yamaha, Toyota would be even more exposed as the talentless suits they are. But this "I love it when Toyota recalls stuff, they're so awesome" is weird. What are you guys on because I want some of it for my Saturday night!