Seeking opinions on 9mm

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Decisions, decisions....
A few more thoughts. If you are interested in getting your wife shooting, the CZ will probably fit her hand better and offer a slightly wider margin of safety with the DA/SA trigger system.

Parts and holster wise, The glock will be easier to buy stuff for, especially locally. The CZ line is very well covered but your only choices are usually online vendors. Either way, You will likely never need replacement parts for either gun. Extra magazines and MAYBE an extra recoil springs if you shoot alot should be all the parts you need.

TCB firearms makes top notch kydex holsters for the entire CZ line. Simply Rugged holsters makes great leather for the entire CZ line also. Most of the major holster makers make holsters for at least some of the CZ line so dont let that scare you.

All the tac lights work the same way. Just twist the tabs on the back of the light to turn the light on. You can also press the tabs in to activate a momentary on mode. The best technique for this is to just sweep your trigger finger down and flick the light on. If you cant reach, use your support hand to reach under the light and quickly flick it on. The only other consideration there is how the light is positioned on the rail of your pistol. If you look at the first pic, you can see the TRL-3 is held pretty far out on the dust cover, making the user have to reach for the tab switch. The much larger TRL-1 and 2 place the tabs all the way up against the trigger guard and make them easy to operate. The TRL-2 is a tight fit on the CZ p-01 or glock 19 and almost provides a custom fitted look, as you noted.

To really nail down your decision, try to go to a range that rents both pistols and try out both the CZ and Glock pistols. That will probably be the deciding factor for you. When I was stationed in Ft Bragg, NC. A few years ago, I know there were several ranges that had a wide selection of rental pistols including glocks and CZs.

Do a follow up and let us know which one you end up going with when you finally make a purchase!
 
My wife's concealed carry pistols: (L)Beretta PX4 Storm Subcompact, (R)Sig Sauer P239 both in 9MM. She shot the target two-handed on the move from 25 yards (L) target Beretta (R) target Sig.
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She loves both of them equally and has put thousands of rounds through both without drama. I prefer the Sig P239 myself for it has no safety on the slide and the night sights are a plus for low light conditions. But be warned you must modify your shooting grip as to not depress the slide lock with your right thumb, especially on the last round. The Px4 Storm Subcompact is very soft recoiling but I don't like the safety on the slide. Both are accurate, dependable, and easy to field strip.

My current concealed carry sidearm is the HK P2000SK in .40S&W.

Whatever you choose, the following is an excellent training aid.LINK :
 
The Glock 19 is considered the gold standard, for good reason. Start there and then work your way to other pistols. You CAN'T go wrong with choosing a Glock first.
 
One additional thought...

Related to parts: There are those who will say that your carry/HD firearm should be box stock because if it is modified and you have to use it your parts choices can be used to make you out to be a "gun nut" or "looking for trouble" or worse...

I don't know how much truth or precedent there actually is for it... something to ask about during class maybe.

The CZ75 series is probably the most popular military/law enforcement pistol in the world... that is no accident...
 
The newer CZ pistols are, in my opinion, very much the "AK" of handguns. I struggle to quantify this, it's just a feel to the weapons.

I have had numerous Glock's, Gen 2-4, and despite having rather large hands (for reference, the HK Mk23 Mod0 is more comfortable to hold than a USP Tactical), I feel like the full size aren't quite right, and the compact are just a hair too small. I do regret selling the 18, almost impossible to find a legit one for sale anymore, even if converted 17's are everywhere.
I still keep a 19 around, fitted with a modified X300 light and threaded barrel, but I don't really take it out all that much.
The other problem is that, for me, Glock's sights are too low. I was trained to shoot using the CAR system, and I learned using one of my P226's (for the handgun) almost exclusively, so when I go to use a Glock, I find that I have to fight muscle memory to not shoot too low.

The P226's, whatever variant you like best, are my recommendation for a solid, no nonsense, reliable, and extremely accurate out of the box handgun. I prefer the 357SIG chambering, and have threaded barrels on all of them (9mm cans work w the 357SIG perfectly), but a 9mm will be cheaper, is available threaded out of the box, and comes with more finishes. The 40SW,well, I am very much not a fan of the round. I would rather a 10mm Auto if I am going to be putting up with the (IMHO) poor recoil characteristics of a round; but neither have the same flat trajectory of the 357SIG, and the SIG has a much more controllable recoil allowing for extremely fast follow up shots (I can shoot a 2" group w a 226 357SIG in about half the time as with the same weapon in 40SW). A 9mil is obviously going to have less recoil, and softer recoil, than either. I just don't have complete faith in the ability for a 9mm to put down a threat fast enough that I don't get hit too, unless running some seriously hot loads. Then again, I have never had to shoot a person, so thank God for that.


The P226 is surprisingly easy to carry, but the 228/229 are much more so, bbeing slimmer and more compact while still offering most all of the benefits of their full size sibling.
 
What I like about the CZ is that the slide rides inside the frame versus on the outside. The frame to slide fit is much larger and seems to ride lower also. Combine that low center of gravity with the metal frame, it tends to be just such a sweet shooting gun.

Sure the glock is the gold standard for reliability. But the lack of a manual safety has always bugged me. That is why when I went for a polymer framed gun, I bought a Steyr M9 back in the day.
 
I have a Ruger SR40c in (wait for it) .40 S&W. They made it based on the SR9mm. I am a Ruger fanboy based on three things: Engineering, Reliability, and Price. I am sure that every other pistol recommended to you is a fine piece; but in my opinion none hit the price/performance sweet spot as well as Ruger. Additionally, for the one time I used it; their customer service is 5-star.
BTW, I recommend you consider a .40; more bullet weights, high velocity, flat shooting, high availability, and more ME in a package fractionally (small fractions) bigger. If you reload, you can make a practice round for $0.24, not sure how much cheaper you could make a 9mm for. Good luck in your choice!
 
I'd try shooting a 40 first. I have, and did not care much for it, and the web is alive with the similar complaint: it's a snappy round. YMMV.

Pretty sure 9mm is still the cheapest round. Been a while since I've done reading on the subject, but I recall it being only marginally cheaper to reload as opposed to buying WWB (Winchester White Box). Granted, WWB is the cheapest in 115grn FMJ, so if you wanted to practice with say 124 +P then the economics change. Point is, once you factor in time spent reloading it might not make sense for 9mm and perhaps 40.

Today's conditions represent odd times, and availability might tip the scales to reloading, at least for the short term. I certainly wouldn't argue against learning how to reload, it's kinda fun in its own right. And it could well be useful at a time like now, where reloading isn't cheaper--but simply expediant.
 
Originally Posted By: nleksan
The newer CZ pistols are, in my opinion, very much the "AK" of handguns. I struggle to quantify this, it's just a feel to the weapons.


Being relatively unfamiliar with AKs, I'm not sure what you mean here. What about the CZ gives it an "AK-ness"? Grip/feel? Reliability? Value? I know you said that it was hard to quantify that, but maybe you might be able to define what it means to be an "AK"? Thanks!
 
I buy CCI Blazer Brass locally for $0.31/round (in 9mm). Bought a box of 350 last weekend from Gander Mountain. Prices online are similar, not including shipping. I'm happy at close to $0.30/round.

I haven't yet gotten into reloading. Could be in the future for me, but not at this point.
 
Did you consider a .45ACP gun?

My Ruger SR45 has the recoil of a 9MM, and shoots great.

Plus, .45ACP ammo is easy to find everywhere.
 
I have shot my friend's SR45 and it has quite a noticeable kick...much more than my EMP 9mm. I could probably live with it, but my wife wouldn't be able to shoot it well.
 
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: nleksan
The newer CZ pistols are, in my opinion, very much the "AK" of handguns. I struggle to quantify this, it's just a feel to the weapons.


Being relatively unfamiliar with AKs, I'm not sure what you mean here. What about the CZ gives it an "AK-ness"? Grip/feel? Reliability? Value? I know you said that it was hard to quantify that, but maybe you might be able to define what it means to be an "AK"? Thanks!


To me the Glock is the AK of the pistol world. Simple, rugged, outstanding reliability, can take abuse in a variety of climates and conditions, and easy for anyone unfamiliar with handguns to use and maintain. And like the AK, it does not always have the best ergonomics or the prettiest design.
 
Originally Posted By: 2cool
BTW, I recommend you consider a .40; more bullet weights, high velocity, flat shooting, high availability, and more ME in a package fractionally (small fractions) bigger.


I have extensive training and experience shooting thousands of rounds of all common pistol and rifle calibers. My opinion would be to avoid the .40 at all cost, and to choose it dead last behind 9mm, .45 ACP, and .357 Sig in auto loading pistols. The round is snappy, slower to shoot than the three other common calibers, and has no benefit over a modern 9mm. The ammo is about 50% more expensive than 9mm, has slower back on target split times. Basically the round is a turd.

Many police departments are going back to the 9mm from the larger calibers, for good reason.
 
Originally Posted By: bubbatime
Many police departments are going back to the 9mm from the larger calibers, for good reason.


Didn't your own FHP switch to the Gen4 .45 GAP?
 
Originally Posted By: Robenstein
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: nleksan
The newer CZ pistols are, in my opinion, very much the "AK" of handguns. I struggle to quantify this, it's just a feel to the weapons.


Being relatively unfamiliar with AKs, I'm not sure what you mean here. What about the CZ gives it an "AK-ness"? Grip/feel? Reliability? Value? I know you said that it was hard to quantify that, but maybe you might be able to define what it means to be an "AK"? Thanks!


To me the Glock is the AK of the pistol world. Simple, rugged, outstanding reliability, can take abuse in a variety of climates and conditions, and easy for anyone unfamiliar with handguns to use and maintain. And like the AK, it does not always have the best ergonomics or the prettiest design.


Robenstein is right. The glock would probably be the closest match the AK rifle. CZ pistols are much too well built, tight fitting, accurate and precise to be like an AK. AK-47 are a loose, sloppy, unrefined, gun with poor sights, poor ergonomics and poor accuracy. The only thing the AK has going for it is it's udder reliability and simple construction. I wouldnt even say the glock pistols are similar to AK rifles.

I am also with the crowd that says stick with 9mm. With good ammo, the 9mm is every bit as good of a stopper as the other calibers and is better in every other respect than the competition, especially when it comes to price. Price is important because in order to be proficient with ANY gun, you must practice enough with it. Practice means buying ammo and the cheaper you can get your ammo, the more likely you are to practice and be proficient. Proficiency builds confidence, confidence leads to more enjoyment, more enjoyment leads to more real world use IE; carrying your gun or leaving it at the ready in the home. More real world use means you will be better prepared if something does go wrong and ultimately, more value for your dollar. Your gun will not be a collectors item left unloaded in the safe but a real tool that you use and isn't just a waste of money wall decoration that you never use.

I digress. As far as stopping power goes, If you need more stopping power than a quality 9mm hollow point +p can offer, get a rifle or shotgun, period. Dont take my word for it though, see what all the veteran handgun trainers opinion is. This is one case where studying what the internet commando crowds do might have it right. For expert opinions on ammo and stopping power, they look to people like; Travis Haley, Chris Costa, Mike Bane, Massad Ayoob, James Yeager, Clint Smith, Dave Spaulding and they all pretty much agree 9mm is the best all around. 45acp is a good alternative and avoid pretty much any other calibers. If you need more stopping power than those can offer, get a rifle or shotgun.
 
Originally Posted By: AMC
With good ammo, the 9mm is every bit as good of a stopper as the other calibers


No, it's not.
 
Originally Posted By: Ramblejam
Originally Posted By: AMC
With good ammo, the 9mm is every bit as good of a stopper as the other calibers


No, it's not.


Aww jeeze, I guess I shouldn't have started that. lol Nevermind. You are right. not going there.....
 
Originally Posted By: AMC
Originally Posted By: Ramblejam
Originally Posted By: AMC
With good ammo, the 9mm is every bit as good of a stopper as the other calibers


No, it's not.


Aww jeeze, I guess I shouldn't have started that. lol Nevermind. You are right. not going there.....


Unfortunately, you already did.
 
Okay, maybe more like an AK-101 than AK-47. I guess I meant that it just has a feel to it, like you have a little bit of history in your hand. It feels less like a mass production black chunk and more like a handmade instrument, where even if it's not the best at anything, it has a bit of soul behind it.

I am glad to see I'm not the only one who finds the 40 to be a round without a purpose, so to speak.

Regarding the 9mm being ideal, I would still argue that the 357SIG is better suited for an "anytime, anywhere" round. Having personally tested a variety of rounds, pistol rifle and shotgun, against a barrier, the 357SIG had the best penetration into the target behind. This was using car doors as barriers, and ballistic gelatin as the target for means of determining penetration power.
The 9mm and 45 JHP both expanded in the door and lost some of the "petals" in doing so, resulting in smaller wound cavities. The 357SIG only began to expand, and not a single round lost more than 2 percent if it's mass to thedoor.
The 40 expanded early but upon striking the target, didn't tend to fully expand and the majority of rounds over penetrated the 36" long blocks of gel, but the wound channels were narrow.
The 10mm Auto, well, it is a beastly round but I would never carry it for self defense, it's simply too much. I have been shooting most my life, and I'm 6'3" 185lbs and I don't feel that the one shot you get off is enough compared to the 2-3 accurate shots you can get off from a less overpowered cartridge in the same time. This is only multiplied by the light weight and small size typical of a carry gun.

The 357SIG actually performed closest to a 44MAG out of a 6" Barrel, and was significantly better than the 357mag it was designed to compete with.

Of course, nothing is going to put a bigger hole in someone than a 450gr sabot rifled slug out of a 12ga (Benelli M3 Super90 Entry w 14.8" barrel, and an 870 Police Magnum firing 3.5" loads).
Even my AI AWSM in 338 Lapua, or an M200 in 408Chey, caused less wounding than an expanded lead boulder @ 1250-1380fps from the 12ga's.
 
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