Seeking opinions on 9mm

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OP, I would wait until after your CCW class and then carry what you have on hand for a while. Everything changes once you actually carry for a while. You will find that opinion is one thing, but your experience can be way different.

One thing I can guarontee, you will be buying a box full of holsters. Different holsters for different needs, even with the same gun.
 
You will not be disappointed in the CZ. My only gripe about the CZ I had (40s&w) was that it was a little under-sprung for hot loads. I ended up putting some Wolff springs in it (mag and recoil) so I did not beat the gun to death. You probably wont have that issue in a 9mm though unless you start shooting +P ammo.
 
Try to get your hands on a Browning Hi-power. Exposed hammer and great ergonomics. And it is a classic.
 
Originally Posted By: Hasty46
If you are still looking I would consider the FNH FNX-9, I own one and I am very pleased with it. If you are able to I would go shoot one and see what you think, I was skeptical until a friend told me to look at the FNX, glad he did. 17 rounds, comes with 3 magazines, well made, and accurate as [censored].


You know, I said I picked up an FNX-9 at the store, and I did. It didn't strike me at the time as "this is my gun". But I've seen a few recommendations for the FNS-9, which is the X's striker-fired cousin. I like a few of the features of that gun, and I also understand that it's a hair smaller than the FNX, and holds a little smaller in the hand. I may need to go back and re-consider this brand. Thanks for the mention.
 
I have a few additional random thoughts, in no particular order...

I can think of only a few carry pistols better than an EMP, an EMP is thin and has a fairly short frame both of which are a big help with carry at least for me. It is even more important if there are laws related to "printing", here your gun "printing" is not a big deal, other places it is a very big deal...

Since you have a 22/45 you may find pistols with a similar (1911) frame "feel" right to you.

The Beretta 92 and Browning Hi-Power are both pistols I've tried very hard to like but they just don't "feel right" to me.

I don't think you can buy a really quality 9mm 1911 for $800.00.

Would you consider a 1911 in a caliber other than 9mm - namely .45?
 
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
The grip on the 19 fit me pretty good, but getting to the slide release was a stretch for my thumb. I could put the extended slide release on, and that would probably help.


FYI on pistols, Glock's especially, they are slide STOPS, not slide RELEASES. Proper protocol is to use your off shooting hand to sling shot release the slide, not your thumb on small slide stop lever.
 
Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
I don't think you can buy a really quality 9mm 1911 for $800.00.


This is what I have found, which is why it's my decision to sell the EMP.

Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
Would you consider a 1911 in a caliber other than 9mm - namely .45?


I'd like to stay with a 9mm for this one. This is a gun that will stay at home most of the time, so it's a gun that my wife also needs to be able to shoot well.

Pistols with 1911-like ergonomics appeal to me...thus my general like of the CZ 75 and more recently the FNX/FNS pistols.
 
Originally Posted By: bubbatime
FYI on pistols, Glock's especially, they are slide STOPS, not slide RELEASES. Proper protocol is to use your off shooting hand to sling shot release the slide, not your thumb on small slide stop lever.


Thanks for noting that distinction. That's probably why they're not all that easy to use with the thumb.
 
I am surprised I didn't find this thread sooner! I have extensive first hand experience with both the glock and cz pistols so you are in luck. I own a CZ P-01, a glock 26 (gen4) and a glock 22 (gen 3). My duty weapon at work is a glock 21 (gen 4).

First off I think you are doing the right thing by getting rid of the EMP. It is a very well made peice but much too expensive and pretty to really be a hard use gun IMO.

Secondly, You are headed in the right direction with your top choices of guns! The glock 19 is one of the best polymer framed 9mm's out there and for good reason. It does everything well, is the perfect size (not too big or small), udderly reliable, parts and accesories are endless... I can go on and on. For your particular needs, A glock 19 makes an excellent gun for just home defense, especially when fitted with a tactical flashlight and or night sights.

As far the cz pistols go, they are excellent also. The CZ's are very different from the glocks in that they are (usually) metal framed and traditional DA/SA operation but that is not a downside, just a differece. If you prefer metal frames and DA/SA triggers, the Sig and CZ pistols are pretty much tops. The CZ pistols are slightly less reliable (they dont like to be run bone dry, the glocks dont care) than the glock series but they are still more than reliable enough for any one. My preferance for a home defense gun is a full sized pistol with night sights and a tac light. As far as CZ's are concerned, that will mean the CZ sp-01 is your best fit. It is an excellent gun and needs absolutely nothing right out of the box. If want a metal framed pistol that can double as a carry gun and home defense gun (similar in size to the glock 19), get the CZ p-01. It is the slightly smaller and much lighter version of the SP-01, still excellent, just midsized. If you want a polymer frame for the weight savings, the P-09 and p-07 are good too, just a little less proven than the p-01 and sp-01 from CZ.

Happy gun shopping!
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Originally Posted By: Barkleymut
Hokie- you need a pistol purchase permit in NC? really?


To buy a handgun in North Carolina, you're supposed to have either a pistol purchase permit or a concealed handgun permit. PPPs are available for $5 each from each county's Sheriff's Office. They take two weeks to process and are pretty easy to get. You can buy five at a time. They expire five years from the date of purchase. A CHP acts as an unlimited PPP...you can buy a handgun at any time you want and can buy as many as you want. You also, obviously, can carry concealed with the CHP. Without a CHP, you can carry, but the gun must be visible. NC is an open carry state.

They say that the PPPs are relics from the Jim Crow era, and they gave Sheriffs the opportunity to control who was legally able to buy pistols. And that may be true. Another viewpoint is the PPP is supposed to cover sales of guns between two individuals (rather than between an individual and a store). When two individuals trade cash for a gun (or trade guns), the "buyer" is supposed to surrender a PPP (or a photocopy of his CHP) to the "seller". The "seller" must then keep that paperwork on record, with the bill of sale. In this case, the PPP presumably takes the place of the automated background check that is not performed with a trade between two individuals. I don't necessarily have a problem with the process, especially because it's so easy to get the CHP (and receive some training along the way).

Interestingly, a lot of gun-friendly legislation was recently passed in North Carolina, and it greatly expanded where one can carry concealed. Here is some information on that, for those in and around North Carolina who may be interested:

https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/conceal...ect-oct-1-2013/

The new rules also simplify (but do not eliminate) the PPP process. I understand that elimination of the PPP process was a part of the original proposal, but they couldn't get the bill passed with it in there.
 
Originally Posted By: AMC
My preferance for a home defense gun is a full sized pistol with night sights and a tac light. As far as CZ's are concerned, that will mean the CZ sp-01 is your best fit. It is an excellent gun and needs absolutely nothing right out of the box.


I've been looking at lights, and I think I'm in the same camp as you: I think a tactical light on the front of the gun would add a lot of value to a home defense gun. So let me go down that rabbit hole for a minute.

As you said, the standard CZ 75 B/variants don't have the rail, but the SP-01 does...so if I want the rail, I'd want the SP-01 (or any of the CZs with the rail, really). And universal tactical lights are certainly available that will fit any gun with a rail. Do you (or does anyone) have a suggestion for a great universal light that is easy to switch on?

One thing I like about Glocks is the aftermarket support...and man, Crimson Trace has me covered there. They have a great-looking product called the Rail Master that integrates a light into the trigger guard area and places a button under the base of the trigger guard. It looks like a complete no-thinker in the heat of an incident...grip the gun and it's on.

Unfortunately, I don't see a product like this for the CZ line...certainly a knock on that series of gun if one likes to modify or add accessories. There is a nice tuning house associated with the brand (CZ Custom), but they don't show a tightly-integrated solution for those guns like Crimson Trace has for the Glock.

Any thoughts on the tactical light topic in particular? Are the universal ones just as easy to turn on and use than the custom-fitted solutions like the Rail Master? Either way, one would certainly need to train with the tool being used...

Thanks for all comments in this thread.
 
Yes you will need one of the P-series pistols from CZ to get the rail. I have the P-01 which works with every light I have tried. The p-09, p-07 and SP-01 phantom pistols give you the most flexibility with rail attachments because they have full picatinny rails on the dust cover.

As far as support goes, CZ is pretty good but not anywhere as covered as Glock. CZ-usa and CZ custom sell all the replacment parts, holsters, accesories, mags you could ever need. Cz custom also does excellent tuning work but I find the CZ pistols really don't need much. The double action triggers can be a little gritty when they are new but that smooths out over time. That is really the only complaint I have about them. The sights, grips and other little things can easily be changed yourself with basic tools. Everything else about the pistols are excellent right out of box, just be sure to thoroughly clean and lube your CZ pistol after you buy it. They come caked with storage grease and gunk all over! Even cleaning and lubing the trigger components the first time helps the trigger pull smooth out a little, lol.

For any of the metal framed compact or full sized CZ pistols, you can get the crimson trace laser grips that replace the stock grips. If you are really after a laser and not a light, now you can get by with any of the CZ pistols if you have the crimson trace grips. Just grip the pistol and the laser comes on....simple. As an alternative, you can just buy one of the light laser combos, throw that on the rail and you have your choice of light only, laser only or both, when you flick the on switch. I have the TLR-2 and I like the combo of light and laser together.

I generally recommend Streamlight for tac lights. They are reliable, bright, have good battery life and a lifetime warranty, a great value for the price. Personally, I like the TLR-1 the most. It matches the finish of the CZ pistols perfectly, is made of aluminum, water proof and has good battery life for how bright it is.

Surefire lights are great but over priced. I have not tried any other brands besides streamlight and surefire.

Stand by for pics!
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I really can't decide at this point. I love the CZ 75/85 in matte stainless. No rail, but it looks to be an awesome gun. The SP-01 is the P model I'd get if I wanted a rail. They don't appear to come in stainless; looks like they come only in black.

The reason I can't decide is I don't know if I want a light on the gun. As it seems with every topic within the gun community, I read opinions that are 100% opposed on gun-mounted tactical lights. I think I'm leaning towards no light, actually.

The reason I'd want a light is to go searching through my house at night, to find the proverbial bump in the night. A number of websites I've read on the topic, though, says that's exactly what I don't need to be doing. If there's a bad guy in the house, I need to secure the family, get to a safe room, and call for help while remaining armed and ready to defend. In other words, I should remain in a defensive position rather than going on an offensive hunt. If I'm solo clearing my house, I could get ambushed by more than one bad guy.

This appears, really, to be a topic above and beyond the intent of this thread. Should one be offensive in one's house, or defensive? I suppose that's a topic for which volumes could be written; and volumes probably HAVE been written, promoting both theories. I take my CHP class in a week, and the teacher is a current LEO, so I'm sure he will have some suggestions on that.

But I do think I've narrowed down my choices to either the CZ 75 if I don't want the rail or the CZ 75 SP-01 if I do want the rail. Both look like excellent weapons. It looks like the SP-01 is the easy choice, because I obviously don't have to use the rail. But I also enjoy shooting, and just love the look of matte stainless/nickeled pistols (like classic 1911s). If I got a stainless 75, it'd be a real fight inside my head on whether to use the OEM CZ rubber grips (which are supposed to be top-notch) or upgrade to a nice set of cocobolo checkered grips.

Decisions, decisions. And I know...first world problems, right?
 
The TLR-1 is a fantastic light. I like adding a laser to the mix personally. I have trained with them and am absolutely convinced that having a laser could save your life.

Look at the Streamlight TLR-2 or TLR-4, both fantastic light/laser combos.

For a little less coin, the older Streamlight M6 combo works great. I bought several of them a few years ago for about $50/each on eBay. I prefer the LED lights, but the older incan lights are a solid value for those on a budget.
 
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
I really can't decide at this point. I love the CZ 75/85 in matte stainless. No rail, but it looks to be an awesome gun. The SP-01 is the P model I'd get if I wanted a rail. They don't appear to come in stainless; looks like they come only in black.

The reason I can't decide is I don't know if I want a light on the gun. As it seems with every topic within the gun community, I read opinions that are 100% opposed on gun-mounted tactical lights. I think I'm leaning towards no light, actually.

The reason I'd want a light is to go searching through my house at night, to find the proverbial bump in the night. A number of websites I've read on the topic, though, says that's exactly what I don't need to be doing. If there's a bad guy in the house, I need to secure the family, get to a safe room, and call for help while remaining armed and ready to defend. In other words, I should remain in a defensive position rather than going on an offensive hunt. If I'm solo clearing my house, I could get ambushed by more than one bad guy.

This appears, really, to be a topic above and beyond the intent of this thread. Should one be offensive in one's house, or defensive? I suppose that's a topic for which volumes could be written; and volumes probably HAVE been written, promoting both theories. I take my CHP class in a week, and the teacher is a current LEO, so I'm sure he will have some suggestions on that.

But I do think I've narrowed down my choices to either the CZ 75 if I don't want the rail or the CZ 75 SP-01 if I do want the rail. Both look like excellent weapons. It looks like the SP-01 is the easy choice, because I obviously don't have to use the rail. But I also enjoy shooting, and just love the look of matte stainless/nickeled pistols (like classic 1911s). If I got a stainless 75, it'd be a real fight inside my head on whether to use the OEM CZ rubber grips (which are supposed to be top-notch) or upgrade to a nice set of cocobolo checkered grips.

Decisions, decisions. And I know...first world problems, right?


Please do not rely on the internet for answers about questions on using tac lights or home defense. Sure it is an OK way to gather opinions but you really need to come to your own conclusions on that stuff.

My feelings are that I would have rather have the light and not need it than to need it and not have it. I have tried all of the two hand light holds using a secondary, non-weapon mounted flashlight and I think they all suck! You are essentially shooting one handed and you have no free hand to do things like fend things off, open doors, use a cell phone, reload your gun, clear jams...etc. The light also adds a nice amount of muzzel weight to your gun and really helps with recoil control and muzzel rise.

As far as the home defense side of it and what to do, you will have to come up with your own plan on that also. This is a topic for another thread but I will touch on it anyways. Me personally, I think the "Oh just hide in the bedroom and call the cops" plan is the politically correct, easy method for people who dont know what they are doing and are deathly afraid of getting in trouble. I recommend that strategy for women, children and the very inexperienced (which is most people) only. The biggest problem I have with this method is the fact that you are giving your entire house to the intruder(s) free reign to do whatever they want untill the cops arrive; douse your house with gas and light it, set traps for you or the cops, gather a plan to storm the 1 room you are in and pretty much anything else the criminal mind can come up with.

For well trained civilans, cops and military, I recommend you be more proactive and do what you are comfortable with. For me, that means grabbing my gun and light combo (doesnt matter which one, I prefer to opt for my rifle) and quietly investigate my house, using the old Army method of knowing exactly where the light switches are, clearing the house and turning the lights on as you go, minimizing the amount of time with my flash light on. The other part to this medthod is that I KNOW if there are people in my house. I just do, I have lived there long enough and can tell the difference between normal sounds and when someone is inside. I also know all of the hiding spaces and pontiential exit points.

As far as rail or no rail, I would get the SP-01 first and then get the stainless CZ 75B later and use that as more of a range gun and collector item. The ergonomics and controls are exactly the same so when shooting one, you will be practicing for the other quiet a bit. The only real difference is that the Sp-01 is heavier and should soak up the recoil even better. I changed the grips on my P-01 to the VZ checkered grip which give a very aggressive and slightly thinner grip profile over the stock ruber. The stock rubber is excellent but it was making the grip of my pistol kind of wide and sticky on clothing, which I didnt not care for for Concealed carry. Plus I really like the rough texture, My glock 22 gen 3, I stippled and now it feels kind of similar to the VZ grips. I like a rough grip! FN is one of the only compoanies that puts a rough enough texture on their grips for me.

When I have time, I will snap some pics for you and maybe that will help out.
 
Originally Posted By: AMC
As far as rail or no rail, I would get the SP-01 first and then get the stainless CZ 75B later and use that as more of a range gun and collector item. The ergonomics and controls are exactly the same so when shooting one, you will be practicing for the other quiet a bit. The only real difference is that the Sp-01 is heavier and should soak up the recoil even better.


After thinking about it more last night, that's the way I was leaning. Not having yet been formally trained in home defense strategies, I figure that I'd rather have the option of easily adding a light/laser/combo than not, even if I ultimately don't add one.

I figure I actually have two options for this. A Glock 19 is certainly a very solid choice, and I can buy them at LEO pricing, which is a significant discount on the MSRP. I can essentially buy a new Glock 19 and a laser-light combo for the same price as I could buy a nekkid CZ SP-01.

I have the feeling that I "should" buy the Glock. I don't know why. I don't like it better than the CZ guns. But I have that feeling in my gut that the Glock is the right way to go. I'll have to ponder my navel on that over the next few weeks and see where that brings me.
 
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: AMC
As far as rail or no rail, I would get the SP-01 first and then get the stainless CZ 75B later and use that as more of a range gun and collector item. The ergonomics and controls are exactly the same so when shooting one, you will be practicing for the other quiet a bit. The only real difference is that the Sp-01 is heavier and should soak up the recoil even better.


After thinking about it more last night, that's the way I was leaning. Not having yet been formally trained in home defense strategies, I figure that I'd rather have the option of easily adding a light/laser/combo than not, even if I ultimately don't add one.

I figure I actually have two options for this. A Glock 19 is certainly a very solid choice, and I can buy them at LEO pricing, which is a significant discount on the MSRP. I can essentially buy a new Glock 19 and a laser-light combo for the same price as I could buy a nekkid CZ SP-01.

I have the feeling that I "should" buy the Glock. I don't know why. I don't like it better than the CZ guns. But I have that feeling in my gut that the Glock is the right way to go. I'll have to ponder my navel on that over the next few weeks and see where that brings me.


I didnt ask this before, but if this gun purchase will be your first gun or only gun for a while then yes, I would say get the glock. It will be less weight, easier to carry, a more simple trigger to learn and slightly less maintenance. If you have other pistols or will be buying more in the immediate future, the CZ might give you more enjoyment.

For me my CZ gives me more enjoyment than my glocks do and because I enjoy it more, I tend to carry and shoot it more, which means more competence and confidence with the gun. The CZ fits my hand much better, is much nicer to look at, shoots better and is just more fun all around. I also like the fact that CZ pistols are somewhat unique. When you bring a CZ to the range, everyone comes over to ask what you have and if they can shoot it. Bring a glock to the range and you get, "hmm, a glock". That being said, the glocks are more like purpose built tools. They are very rugged and kind of unrefined, Dont fit my hand very well, aren't very good looking and aren't a whole ton of fun to shoot. That being said, I would have to give the functional edge to the Glocks. They are very light weight, udderly reliable, dont even need to be oiled and the fact that I dont care for the looks means I dont care if I beat them up, scratch them or whatever, they just work and I am never afraid to use them. I am not saying the CZ's aren't reliable or are too pretty to use, just that the glocks have a slight edge in that respect.

So here are my 2 glock pistols and my CZ p-01. The CZ has the streamlight TRL-2 and the Glock 22 has the streamlight TRL-3.


A close up of the p-01. To me, the CZ has much nicer lines and proportions. The TRL-2 adds bulk to the front of the gun but it works great:



Here is a close up of the glock 22 wearing the new TRL-1, much brighter than the older versions. Note even with my stipple job and the few modifications I have, the glock is still very bland to look at:


And here is rear profile shot of the glock 22 and CZ p-01. Both give a very high grip and good sight picture. The CZ definitely has a more tapered and hand fitting grip, the glock is very blocky and fills your hand rather than fitting into it.


I hope this helps!
 
Firstly, let me thank all for the continuing discussion. Please know that it's very helpful.

No, this is not my first gun or first handgun purchase. I have another pistol (a Ruger 22/45 Lite) and two long guns (a Winchester model 94 rifle and a 20" Mossberg 500 12 ga shotgun). I wouldn't say that I'm "new" to shooting, but I'm certainly not a veteran. But my wife, who will also be using the pistol for practice, IS new to shooting.

This gun, this fullsize 9mm, will be a home defense and range gun. The plan, obviously, is to never have to use it in self defense, and with any luck, I'll be able to run many thousands of rounds through it in enjoyable range time. I absolutely agree that the CZs are better looking guns, and both are probably equally as reliable in this situation, and both are likely more accurate as guns than I am as a shooter.

I think the reason that I feel drawn to the Glock is the dead-nuts ease of maintenance and availability of parts. Need a tac lite or laser? I know they make universal ones, but I can also buy a number custom-fit for every model of Glock. Holster? Same. And it's likely the same for any conceivable other part or group of parts out there. If I need something for the gun, it's nearly guaranteed that I'd find one or many choices for a Glock 19. Not so much for the CZ pistols, or so it seems.

And on the other hand, I am drawn to the uniqueness and charm of the CZs. And reading online, it seems like CZs are like potato chips: you can't have just one! They would likely manage recoil better, likely shoot just as good as or better than a Glock, and would be 100% reliable for everything for which I'd use it. If, in your opinion, the CZ is more enjoyable to shoot, that is a factor; I hope that most of my experience with the gun is at the range, enjoying the engineering and manufacturing of a quality firearm.

Thanks for the photos of your rigs. I'd like to look more at those tac lights...see how easy they are to operate (turn on/off), how they fit, etc. It looks at home on your P-01. I spoke with a friend at church today who recommended a local CZ dealer; says if I mention his name, they'll give me 10% over cost on a new one. Will have to go check that out, once I actually can buy one (get my paperwork sorted out).
 
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