Seeking opinions on 9mm

[strat81]

AMC makes some good points on the SP-01 and safety vs. decocker.

I have the manual safety version and it is stored with one in the chamber, hammer down, so that the gun is ready to fire if needed without worrying about a safety being on.

I manually decock the hammer using two hands. One hand pinches the hammer while the other pulls the trigger. Once the hammer starts to release, the trigger is released to put the firing pin block back in place and the hammer is slowly lowered. With the pinch grip, my fingers are between the hammer and firing pin, preventing contact. Make sure the gun is pointed in a safe direction while you do this.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: strat81
I manually decock the hammer using two hands. One hand pinches the hammer while the other pulls the trigger. Once the hammer starts to release, the trigger is released to put the firing pin block back in place and the hammer is slowly lowered. With the pinch grip, my fingers are between the hammer and firing pin, preventing contact. Make sure the gun is pointed in a safe direction while you do this.


When you manually decock, you are putting the hammer into the "half cocked" position, right? It doesn't actually go all the way back down (to the firing pin), but to the first "detent", right?

Is that what the decocker model does as well? When you rack the slide to load a round, then decock it, it's putting it back to that "half cocked" position?

 

[Robenstein]

Id go decocker to be honest especially since you mention others, who may not be a s proficient with the gun, might need to use it. I kind of wish that CZ would have had a model that had a combo safety like Taurus does with their PT92 pistols. It can be either a manual safety like a 1911, or a decock if you press it all the way down.

 

[Hokiefyd]

FN's FNX-9 is actually like that as well, with the combo safety. I'm not sure I'd care for that, honestly. I think that adds complexity to a system that should probably be pretty simple, in terms of operation. In the heat of the moment, I'd rather not have to think about whether safety is up, or decock is up, or....

 

[strat81]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: strat81
I manually decock the hammer using two hands. One hand pinches the hammer while the other pulls the trigger. Once the hammer starts to release, the trigger is released to put the firing pin block back in place and the hammer is slowly lowered. With the pinch grip, my fingers are between the hammer and firing pin, preventing contact. Make sure the gun is pointed in a safe direction while you do this.


When you manually decock, you are putting the hammer into the "half cocked" position, right? It doesn't actually go all the way back down (to the firing pin), but to the first "detent", right?

Is that what the decocker model does as well? When you rack the slide to load a round, then decock it, it's putting it back to that "half cocked" position?


I do not know what the decocker model does to the hammer.

When I manually decock, mine is on a half-cock or "safety cock" notch. It is not resting on the firing pin, it's maybe 1/16" away from it. It wouldn't matter though because the firing pin cannot strike the primer since the SP-01 has a firing pin block.

FWIW, when I shoot matches, I start cocked and locked. Different games/clubs have different rules, so you may have to decock at your matches.

 

[AMC]

Yes the decocker drops the hammer to half or what I call, quarter cock notch. It is nice because it shortens the trigger pull and provides an extra margin of safety.

With enough practice, manual decocking can be safe but it is kind of a bad habit to get into and you would never want to do it anywhere but in a safe direction, on your property. Manually decocking at a range will get you kicked out in a hurry and you would certainly never want to try to manually decock in a stressful environment or after you just used your gun for self defense.

I recommend you just get the decocker version. I love mine and to me, the CZ P-series pistols have the best designed decocker in the world. I have issue with almost every other design out there. The sig pistols have it worst for me, my thumb rests right on it.

 

[Hokiefyd]

You guys have talked me into it. An SP-01 with a decocker. Now, to find one........

 

[Hokiefyd]

Anyone have experience with or opinions on the CZ P-09? It's a full-sized polymer frame pistol. SP-01s don't appear all that easy to find (and when you find them, most are the safety model). P-09s are easier to find, retail for about 500 bucks, and all models come with the decocker and manual safety kit, so you can pick and choose which kit to install and can switch back and forth.

I watched a few YouTube videos on it and it seems like a nice shooter. Low felt recoil apparently due to the slide-in-frame design. Interchangeable backstraps. 19+1 capacity. Looks like a new gun in 2013.

Seems like there's got to be a catch. It sounds inexpensive, even compared to other polymer pistols.

 

[strat81]

Originally Posted By: AMC
Manually decocking at a range will get you kicked out in a hurry

I respectfully disagree.

The range I volunteer for has no problem with manual decocking and nothing was mentioned about it during our NRA RSO training class.

Also, some USPSA, IPSC, and IDPA divisions require DA/SA guns to start decocked. On guns without a decocker, the hammer is lowered manually after a round is chambered. Friendly club matches it's usually not a big deal, but at sanctioned matches, it certainly is.

That's why many people have moved to SAO and DAO pistols for games light that - consistent trigger pull and (usually) lighter trigger pull. OTOH, there are some shooters that haul through that first, heavy DA shot with no problem. Just takes lots of practice.

 

[AMC]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Anyone have experience with or opinions on the CZ P-09? It's a full-sized polymer frame pistol. SP-01s don't appear all that easy to find (and when you find them, most are the safety model). P-09s are easier to find, retail for about 500 bucks, and all models come with the decocker and manual safety kit, so you can pick and choose which kit to install and can switch back and forth.

I watched a few YouTube videos on it and it seems like a nice shooter. Low felt recoil apparently due to the slide-in-frame design. Interchangeable backstraps. 19+1 capacity. Looks like a new gun in 2013.

Seems like there's got to be a catch. It sounds inexpensive, even compared to other polymer pistols.


I would say the only catch is that the P-09's are new and less proven than the P-01 and SP-01. The CZ P-01 went through a lot of development and testing so that it would be extremely reliable for the czech police. Because they have been out for a while, all the bugs and initial problems have been worked out. I have no idea if the p-09 was that thoroughly tested and what the P-09 was designed as. A gun for the american market or gun for some form of government in the Czech republic? I know the czech military loves their CZ sp-01 phantoms and CZ 805 rifles. The Czech National police also enjoyed their p-01's when they had them but wanted a slightly higher magazine capacity and a polymer frame, so the P-07 duty was developed. The P-09 will be much lighter weight, have a slightly smoother trigger pull and the interchangeable back straps. The SP-01 will be heavier, come stock with night sights, have more parts and holsters available and have the changeable grips instead of the changeable back straps. Both are great looking guns and I I really dont think you can go wrong either way! The SP-01 tactical can be a little hard to find, your gun dealer may even have to order it, shouldn't be a big deal though.

One neat thing about the CZ p-01 is that it is one of the few pistols on the civilian market to bear an NSN number. What that means is that the P-01 is approved for use by ANY NATO military force and it can be very easily ordered through a supply command using the nsn number that is actually stamped right on the frame. All the SP-01 pistol is, is a P-01 with a longer barrel, slide, grip and magazine. Almost all the parts between the 2 pistols are interchangeable with no fitting needed.

Here is a link to the testing the P-01 went through:
http://cz-usa.com/press-releases/102/

 

[Win]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
You guys have talked me into it. An SP-01 with a decocker. Now, to find one........


I got mine at Academy Sports + Outdoors. Do you have those in NC?

 

[Hokiefyd]

We don't have Academy Sports here, but one did show up on Armslist in a Winston-Salem dealer, an SP-01 Tactical with the decocker. $725. Our local Gander Mountain has a CZ polymer something there. It might have been a P-09. I don't recall, as I was looking for a 75 at the time. I need to check back on that.

At this point, I need to decide on the all steel SP-01 or the new polymer P-09. The P-09 is a few hundred bucks cheaper, and is lighter so I could conceivably carry it in a holster easier if I wanted to down the road.

 

[Robenstein]

The polymer gun will have more perceived recoil and will be more top heavy resulting in more "flip" during the extraction cycle.

 

[Hokiefyd]

I was reminded of the all steel P-01 last night poking around on Armslist. It's a Glock 19-sized gun that appeals to me more after doing some more research. There are also a number of them available near me, all with the decocker. So this is a viable option as well.

I thought I had my EMP sold this weekend, but that fell through. Once I get that sold, I'll be in a better position to buy.

 

[AMC]

The P-01 is aluminum framed. Some people like that and some people don't but it works. It is very light weight and corrosion resistant but still gives the feel of steel with only a little bit of extra heft. Many people consider alloy framed pistols a nice compromise between all steel frames and polymer frames. The P-01 does not come stock with night sights, which makes it a few bucks cheaper up front also.

Another neat little feature of the CZ-75 series is that the full sized mags will work in any of the smaller CZ 75 series pistols. The 19rd SP-01 mag will work in the midsized P-01 and the compact Rami pistols as well as the regular CZ-75 and CZ-75 compact. I am not 100% sure but I think the CZ P-07 and P-09 take proprietary mags and do not interchange.

 

[strat81]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
I was reminded of the all steel P-01 last night poking around on Armslist. It's a Glock 19-sized gun that appeals to me more after doing some more research. There are also a number of them available near me, all with the decocker. So this is a viable option as well.


The P-01 has an alloy frame, not steel.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Of course you guys are right. I was thinking "metal" (vs. polymer) and I typed steel instead.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: AMC
I am not 100% sure but I think the CZ P-07 and P-09 take proprietary mags and do not interchange.


This is correct. The magazines for the polymer framed P-07 and P-09 are wider (because they can make the sides of the stock thinner with polymer), and they will not work in the 75-based pistols.

 

[lexus114]

I have two CZ 82 9X18 Makarov 9mm`s. And a SCCY 9mm. The SCCy is a good carry piece. But I really like the 82`s.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Does anyone recognize these grips?

Spoiler alert: yes, that's a CZ P-01, and yes, I am shopping for grips...