Sears/Craftsman/USA=ripoff

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: JOD

At a certain point, folks have to stop looking at companies and start looking in the mirror. Most people are more-than-willing to buy their goods from a country where the workers aren't making a living wage and the companies ignore environmental standards, as long it's a little cheaper for them. Then, manufacturing jobs go away--and then people complain that 'they can't afford anything but Chinese goods'. Well, buy less, and buy quality. Otherwise, the vicious cycle continues.

EXACTLY JOD. It is this simple concept, one that is so full of what should be common sense, yet it seems to escape (almost) every American and Canadian. Those taking their fill at the "trough" perusing the isles of Chinese garbage at China mart, pi$$ing their paycheque into the wind on more "disposable" junk to keep them feeling "trendy" and keeping up with whatever contrived benchmark for success that they've established (or has been set) in their brainwashed minds.

What used to be buy once and repair has been replaced with buy and replace when broken. Repeat.

What used to be sensible and proud purchases: a ratchet that can be re-kitted when needed. A tool that was designed to last for life. Replaced by "I bought five of these at Harbour Freight because they were on sale!".

Consumers are enabling companies to do this because they may [censored] and complain about what these companies are doing, but at the end of the day, they are still buying the products, and in doing so, are enforcing the mantra that these companies CAN off-shore their manufacturing and the consumers will still come to the trough and feed. They will buy the poisoned dog food, they will eat the leaded paint, and they will LIKE IT, because they are consumer whores. And how.

 

[stephen9666]

Here are just a few examples of 3/8" drive USA made ratchets that would be a big step up from your Craftsman raised panel. There are many other choices, but these are a few I just pulled off the top of my head.

Wright 3490 3/8" ratchet. 82 tooth action. $25 + shipping. Fully-polished handle. If you aren't familiar with Harry Epstein, they're a great company to deal with. I've bought a lot of tools from them.

Wright 3400 . Same 82 tooth action. $25 shipped. Comfort grip.

Williams BB52A 3/8" ratchet. 72 tooth action. $23 shipped. Williams is the industrial tool division of Snap-On.

SK 45170 ratchet. This is a simple design that has been in use for something like 60+ years. SK still makes these ratchets. They have somewhere around 36 or 40 teeth (I can't remember right now). You can find good deals on ebay, but this is just one I found in a few minutes of searching.

 

[Chris B.]

In recent years Wal-Mart spent about 17 billion with China suppliers. In those same years Wal-Mart spent about 179 billion with USA suppliers. FAR more USA made stuff then China made stuff is sold at Wal-Mart. USA still manufactures many times more then what China does. www.walmartfacts.com.

With that said I'm extremely upset with the way USA products are being sent over seas. If it keeps up China will pass us up. I'll be calling Sears this week to give them an ear full about Craftsmen!!!!!!

 

[Vikas]

Originally Posted By: FastGame
About 6 months ago I bought Craftsman Made in USA 3/8 socket set, the ratchet went bad

I took it back to Sears to get the replacement but they didn't have that model in stock and they wouldn't let me have the 1 in. longer model even if I paid the price difference between the two. They had to send mine in and send me the replacement.


I am going to go against the tide. Did you really pay USA price for that socket set? Very few people buy tools at their listed price from Sears. Tell us how much you paid for your set and how many pieces you got. If on an average you are paying couple dollars for a piece, you are really paying China price. It is great to get good quality USA parts at that price but I consider that to be a heck of bargain. You are paying HF price.

Even today there are great deals at Sears where you can pick up over hundred pieces of USA tools with plastic case under $45 shipped. I do not think anybody has a right to scream at Sears if they purchase this set and later warranty replacement comes from China.

YOU ARE PAYING PEANUTS FOR USA CRAFTSMAN TOOLS.

118-piece Craftsman Dual Marked Mechanics Tool Set $46 + Free Store Pickup

http://slickdeals.net/permadeal/64886

- Vikas

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Chris B.
In recent years Wal-Mart spent about 17 billion with China suppliers. In those same years Wal-Mart spent about 179 billion with USA suppliers. FAR more USA made stuff then China made stuff is sold at Wal-Mart. USA still manufactures many times more then what China does. www.walmartfacts.com.

With that said I'm extremely upset with the way USA products are being sent over seas. If it keeps up China will pass us up. I'll be calling Sears this week to give them an ear full about Craftsmen!!!!!!


USA suppliers and China suppliers. That sounds like a fun game. So the Black and Decker (US company) drill that is produced in China, does it fall under the US supplier umbrella?

Think about it.

 

[SuperDave456]

I have a bunch of craftsman tools. Most of them my Grandfather's. The few that I have bought have "Made in USA" stamped on them.

That being said I still regularly use my first ratchet and socket set. They are stamped "Taiwan".
I was given them as a set from my folks before going off to college, and even though I have thoroughly beat on them, they have held up well.

What one has to remember is that all these 'free trade agreements' aren't free. However, what we in the USA now do is come up with ideas. Figure out how to mass produce those ideas, and then we either build a factory here in the States to mass produce those ideas. Only to later pack up that factory and ship the whole thing overseas once all the kinks are ironed out.
Or after we come up with the idea, we figure out how to build the factory overseas.

As long as you are in the production of the idea you are good. If you are the blue collar worker you better be mobile as you will not work any one place for long.

Do I agree with it? No.
But then again we still dwarf all other exporters of industry. Even China, Japan, and Taiwan are smothered by our sheer economic might.
However, our golden days are waning. Pax Americana is over.
Kick the can is finally catching up to...well... everyone.
But this will quickly become political.

I think I will go disassemble my ratchets tonight clean them and grease them.

 

[JOD]

Originally Posted By: Chris B.
In recent years Wal-Mart spent about 17 billion with China suppliers. In those same years Wal-Mart spent about 179 billion with USA suppliers. FAR more USA made stuff then China made stuff is sold at Wal-Mart. USA still manufactures many times more then what China does. www.walmartfacts.com.



17 million is what they've imported directly. Of that 180 billion they've spend with US suppliers, the overwhelming majority of those goods are produced in China. That doesn't mean there is no US value added to them, and putting exact percentages on things is tough, but to suggest that 180 billion is spent on US goods (as Walmart does in their facts page) is disingenuous at best.

To Al's point, while I get the "free trade" argument, the companies are giving people what they want: cheap, disposable goods. If consumers demanded higher quality goods made by people and nations who met a certain standard, then companies would give it to them. Eventually, cost is king.

I used to work for one of the last companies to manufacture inexpensive (under $1,000) bicycles in the US. I worked there during the shutdown of the factory and saw the jobs losses first-hand. Guess what the response was from most of our customers?? "It's about time!". The "made in America" label was nice and all, but most dealers complained that the level of assembly was much better on the imported bikes from other companies, and that our spec wasn't competitive. Of course, they were right. We simply couldn't compete on labor costs, so the cuts had to come from somewhere. Our stuff became more competitive in the marketplace pretty much as soon as we made the switch, and consumers voted with their pocketbooks. That's how things work. Ultimately, (most) people will buy what's cheapest, and country of origin just isn't that important to people.

 

[TurboLuver]

Originally Posted By: Chris B.
FAR more USA made stuff then China made stuff is sold at Wal-Mart.


LMAO that's rich...tell me another one.

My personal experience shopping at china mart tells a different story.

 

[Chris B.]

Read the link. It says USA made products through US suppliers. It is a WM site so maybe they are making it up but I doubt it since that would be asking for trouble.

 

[mpvue]

Originally Posted By: SuperDave456
However, what we in the USA now do is come up with ideas. Figure out how to mass produce those ideas, and then we either build a factory here in the States to mass produce those ideas. Only to later pack up that factory and ship the whole thing overseas once all the kinks are ironed out.
Or after we come up with the idea, we figure out how to build the factory overseas.


most times when a company comes up w/ an idea, they shop it around to see who can make it, and usually China is the only one who can hit the ground running, ready w/ all the infrastructure in place.
perhaps there could be a domestic firm that could do it, but our culture demands we can do it for a profit.
using cookware as an example, consider All-Clad and Lodge. both American made for the most part. but, All-Clad has their lids made and polished in China (and produces some lower end lines there) because it doesn't make sense to pay American wages to get it done for just a lid.
http://www.all-clad.com/consumer-service/frequently-asked-questions/#faq14
Lodge likewise makes their bare cast iron items here, but their enamel coated pieces are made in China, because they couldn't do it here w/ EPA regs and still make a profit.
http://www.lodgemfg.com/use-care-help.asp#13 http://www.lodgemfg.com/use-care-help.asp#13

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Chris B.
Read the link. It says USA made products through US suppliers. It is a WM site so maybe they are making it up but I doubt it since that would be asking for trouble.


Find me some American made kids toys or American made cloths and shoes. Find me an American made TV, stereo, gaming console, or computer. And then tell me how those numbers are possible.

I have no doubt in my mind that they deal with a huge pile of American suppliers. I do doubt however that the majority of those products are of American origin.

 

[TurboLuver]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: Chris B.
Read the link. It says USA made products through US suppliers. It is a WM site so maybe they are making it up but I doubt it since that would be asking for trouble.


Find me some American made kids toys or American made cloths and shoes. Find me an American made TV, stereo, gaming console, or computer. And then tell me how those numbers are possible.

I have no doubt in my mind that they deal with a huge pile of American suppliers. I do doubt however that the majority of those products are of American origin.


OVERK1LL is exactly right!

 

[Chris B.]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: Chris B.
Read the link. It says USA made products through US suppliers. It is a WM site so maybe they are making it up but I doubt it since that would be asking for trouble.


Find me some American made kids toys or American made cloths and shoes. Find me an American made TV, stereo, gaming console, or computer. And then tell me how those numbers are possible.

I have no doubt in my mind that they deal with a huge pile of American suppliers. I do doubt however that the majority of those products are of American origin.


All of the plastics Cozy Coup type cars by Little Tykes are 100% USA made. Step 2 makes all USA made kids toys sold at Wal-Mart. There are many USA made cloths and shoes. Wal-Mart sells New Balance shoes that are 100% USA made. They sell Mag lights that are USA made and Channel Lock tools and Vaughn hammers that are USA made along with many other tools that are USA made. It is all there in the above link.

Hey I agree with you on needing to stop moving US products to China but in reality Wal-Mart sells more US stuff and spend more with the US then China.

 

[Chris B.]

Originally Posted By: TurboLuver
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: Chris B.
Read the link. It says USA made products through US suppliers. It is a WM site so maybe they are making it up but I doubt it since that would be asking for trouble.


Find me some American made kids toys or American made cloths and shoes. Find me an American made TV, stereo, gaming console, or computer. And then tell me how those numbers are possible.

I have no doubt in my mind that they deal with a huge pile of American suppliers. I do doubt however that the majority of those products are of American origin.


OVERK1LL is exactly right!


WRONG Dude see above. This stuff is not hard to look up. I think is is just popular to jump on the "bash Wal-Mart" band wagan. Give it enough time and it might become true but right now it is false.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Chris B.
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: Chris B.
Read the link. It says USA made products through US suppliers. It is a WM site so maybe they are making it up but I doubt it since that would be asking for trouble.


Find me some American made kids toys or American made cloths and shoes. Find me an American made TV, stereo, gaming console, or computer. And then tell me how those numbers are possible.

I have no doubt in my mind that they deal with a huge pile of American suppliers. I do doubt however that the majority of those products are of American origin.


All of the plastics Cozy Coup type cars by Little Tykes are 100% USA made. Step 2 makes all USA made kids toys sold at Wal-Mart. There are many USA made cloths and shoes. Wal-Mart sells New Balance shoes that are 100% USA made. They sell Mag lights that are USA made and Channel Lock tools that are USA made along with many other tools that are USA made. It is all there in the above link.

Hey I agree with you on needing to stop moving US products to China but in reality Wal-Mart sells more US stuff and spend more with the US then China.


I don't want brands sir. I want you to go to Walmart and tell me what you SEE. When I go to Walmart I see a lot of China-sourced Fisher Price toys (among other brands), I see PILES of shoe brands I've never heard of that are all from China. I see mountains of clothing.... All from China. Stanley, Fuller.... China.

And then we can start on with Electronics. You'd be hard pressed to find ANYTHING in the electronics section that is American made. How about power tools? Same thing.

What about appliances? Furniture? Knives/cookware?

I could go on forever! I've been in the store! And that's why I don't shop there.

Dotting your website with a list of "American" companies to attempt some ghetto form of patriotism does nothing to hide the fact that the "American" companies you (Walmart) deal with have already outsourced.

I don't find the numbers believable as stated. Filtered through in the method JOD and I both outlined; yes, that would make sense.

Zellers is JUST as guilty! This is not an attack on Walmart, this is my rant against ignorant and greedy consumers who could care less where the product they purchased is from. They just want to spend money they don't have on stuff they don't need to live up to some superficial benchmark they've set for themselves as defining some form of "success".

 

[Chris B.]

I have a 2 year old so I know all about toys. I have been able to buy many 100% USA made toys at Wal-Mart. I have also just picked up a Buck 119 and Kershaw made pocket knife that are both USA made from Wal-Mart.
I know there is tons of china junk sold there and I try to avoid all of it if I can. If you look you will see USA made products in ever department as options to the china [censored].

I totally understand where you are coming from but there is lots of USA stuff to buy at Wal-Mart, Sears and other retailers. Just saying it is not true when folks say "99% of product is made in China" More like 40%-50%(that is just a guess).

 

[FastGame]

Originally Posted By: Vikas
Originally Posted By: FastGame
About 6 months ago I bought Craftsman Made in USA 3/8 socket set, the ratchet went bad

I took it back to Sears to get the replacement but they didn't have that model in stock and they wouldn't let me have the 1 in. longer model even if I paid the price difference between the two. They had to send mine in and send me the replacement.
Even today there are great deals at Sears where you can pick up over hundred pieces of USA tools with plastic case under $45 shipped. I do not think anybody has a right to scream at Sears if they purchase this set and later warranty replacement comes from China.


So where in this thread did I say I screamed at Sears or screamed at anyone ?

 

[stephen9666]

Originally Posted By: Chris B.
In recent years Wal-Mart spent about 17 billion with China suppliers. In those same years Wal-Mart spent about 179 billion with USA suppliers. FAR more USA made stuff then China made stuff is sold at Wal-Mart. USA still manufactures many times more then what China does. www.walmartfacts.com.

Originally Posted By: Chris B.
Read the link. It says USA made products through US suppliers. It is a WM site so maybe they are making it up but I doubt it since that would be asking for trouble.


I can't even find the info you're claiming is at that link. Where is it? Can you provide a more direct link?

 

[Chris B.]

I would be EXTREMELY upset if any of my USA made Craftsmen tools were warrantied with one made in China. Sears should be ashamed of themselves to destroy a traditional USA brand like Craftsmen.

 

[Pop_Rivit]

Originally Posted By: JOD
17 million is what they've imported directly. Of that 180 billion they've spend with US suppliers, the overwhelming majority of those goods are produced in China. That doesn't mean there is no US value added to them, and putting exact percentages on things is tough, but to suggest that 180 billion is spent on US goods (as Walmart does in their facts page) is disingenuous at best.


Agreed. It's funny how many of the same people who have their knickers knotted up over replacement Craftsman rachet being made in China have no problem proudly strolling into the largest China importer in the US and plunking their money down because of the false assumption of "low prices".