Seal Conditioners-Mobil 1

The Critic said:
Pennzoil has made it clear in the other thread that seal swellers can have a negative effect on healthy seals.
Click to expand...


So all API certified oils damage healthy seals? It's just a matter of degree? That is new information I didn't know.

The info I had was that seals needed a certain amount for maintenance and the seal compatibility test insured oils within the range that was healthy.
 
Gene K said:
So all API certified oils damage healthy seals? It's just a matter of degree?
Click to expand...
Apparently so. I have yet to see a detailed description of these so-called seal compatibility tests and their requirements.

Michael's Motor Alley Podcast - High Mileage Oils

I started listening to this podcast today (pinned to the top of this forum). In his High Mileage Oil episode, he was very adamant about not using HM oils in vehicles under 75000 miles. He said the seals would swell too much and the next time you used a non-HM oil, they would return to normal...
bobistheoilguy.com
 
Last edited:
The Critic said:
Pennzoil has made it clear in the other thread that seal swellers can have a negative effect on healthy seals.
Click to expand...
That post was made by a PR rep. No one with a technical background talks like that.

75,000 miles is such an arbitrary and made up age. If my engine doesn't leak new and it doesn't leak at 75k miles and it doesn't leak at 150k miles, what's the difference?

Yet they recommend using HM oils at 75k miles.
 
RooflessVW said:
That post was made by a PR rep. No one with a technical background talks like that.

75,000 miles is such an arbitrary and made up age. If my engine doesn't leak new and it doesn't leak at 75k miles and it doesn't leak at 150k miles, what's the difference?

Yet they recommend using HM oils at 75k miles.
Click to expand...
There is still some deterioration with age. 75K is probably when many seals begin to see some degree of deterioration.

1648076674029.jpg



When we discuss seal compatibility, I believe we are discussing the elastomer compatibility section. Obviously SP/GF-6 sets limits to the percentage of change, but isn't this a situation where any change is undesirable?
 
I knew someone that used Valvoline Maxlife on a vehicle under 75,000 MI for years, every once in awhile he used a synthetic, and then he used conventional. He jumped back and forth all the time. Never had a problem with leaks or anything but it was always Valvoline oil..
Valvoline conventional, Valvoline Maxlife, Valvoline synpower depending on his finances..
 
Is it likely for a brand like Shell, Total or Liqui Moly to contain more seal conditioners than a cheap store brand that still carries the same approvals?
 
Last edited:
Baracoa said:
I recently wrote to Mobil 1 and asked the following question: "Concerning the seal conditioning agents found in High Mileage oil, do they also swell the seals and gaskets or is its purpose only to provide special conditioning to the gaskets and seals." The reply from Mobil 1: "The function of seal conditioners in ALL of our oils is to keep your soft seals flexible and pliable. This allows them to conform to little surface irregularities and machining imperfections, to keep the oil on the inside. My High Mileage oils contain a slightly higher conditioner content, intended to help if we have a problem seal."

It was my understanding that only High Mileage oils contained seal conditioners. But apparently ALL (at least Mobil 1) oils contain seal conditioners although High Mileage oils contain slightly more. Nothing was mentioned about the seal conditioners producing any swelling effect on gaskets and seals, at least not directly. Only a reference was made to this higher conditioner content having some effect on a 'problem seal.' So I am still not clear on whether or not seal conditioners also produce a swelling effect on gaskets and seals.
Click to expand...
All base oils, except a few like Group I, ester, and AN, shrink the seals; therefore, they need to make up with esters etc. to swell the seals to API/ACEA specs. High-mileage (HM) oils might contain extra seal swellers, but this is not necessarily the case. For example, regular and HM Super Tech oils turned out to be entirely identical in formulation with only the labels being different. Too much seal swelling harms the seals as well.
 
Last edited:
Gokhan said:
All base oils, except few like Group I, ester, and AN, shrink the seals; therefore, they need to make up with esters etc. to swell the seals to API/ACEA specs. High-mileage (HM) oils might contain extra seal swellers, but this is not necessarily the case. For example, regular and HM Super Tech oils turned out to be entirely identical in formulation with only the labels being different. Too much seal swelling harms the seals as well.
Click to expand...
So basically the only difference, is the container?
 
Gene K said:
No.

Kind of supposed that was the whole purpose of the seal compatibility test they all passed.

I simply proposed an experiment to see if it was possible to tell a difference after long term seal exposure to different oils.
Click to expand...
I'm certain those standardized tests do not use actual seals but coupons of various polymers that would be easiest to measure. No doubt you would also perform a Shore hardness test to look for elastomeric degradation.
 
"Korey Sargent, Lubrication Support E.I.T in Fuels and Lubricants Marketing at Exxon Mobil. Here is what he said: Seals tests are part of the testing requirements for many specifications and claims. Specifically ASTM test D7216 is required for ILSAC and API performance claims. Mobil 1 motor oils are tested for compatibility with many types of seal materials including silicone seals. As lubricant developers, we are not always privileged to know the specific elastomers in each engine for each manufacturer. We rely on the auto manufacturers to ensure that all the relevant seal materials are required in the industry required tests or their own proprietary tests. Both regular and high mileage oils are tested in the industry or proprietary seal tests required for the claims that are listed on the PDS of the product. There should be no issues with using a high mileage product in a newer vehicle as long as that product meets the viscosity and claims required by the manufacturer. Lastly, we always recommend that our customers consult their owner's manual to ensure they are choosing the correct lubricant for their vehicle."

 
kschachn said:
There are other attributes that an HM oil could have besides additional seal swelling or conditioning agents (or the "formula").
Click to expand...
I know I never had a problem with switching back and forth. At least with Valvoline brand, I don't know anything about Pennzoil..
 
Scott S said:
So basically the only difference, is the container?
Click to expand...

Only anecdotal but some.people have claimed some success with both ST and ST HM drying up small leaks after swapping from a synthetic. I've often wondered if it's a combination of a different base oil (causes less shrinkage) and higher than average seal conditioners.

Honestly I kind of stacked the deck with the 3 oils I was suggesting for the seal experiment.
 
kschachn said:
There are other attributes that an HM oil could have besides additional seal swelling or conditioning agents (or the "formula").
Click to expand...

I think he he was referring specifically to the reference about ST and ST HM being the same product in different bottles.

I'm don't have a dog in that fight, one way or the other.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

E
Which HM oil for swelling rubber seals?
Replies
17
Views
2K
hrv
AZjeff
Synthetic oil dries out seals.
2 3
Replies
49
Views
6K
SumGuy
T
Used HIgh Mileage oil in my low mileage vehicle, am I causing damage?
2
Replies
26
Views
5K
zrxkawboy
H
2023 High Mileage Oil comparison
2 3 4
Replies
62
Views
15K
malibuguy79
N
Recommend an oil choice to me - used 2005 Highlander V6
2
Replies
37
Views
2K
nthach
Back
Top