Seal Conditioners-Mobil 1

B

Baracoa

Joined
Jan 10, 2017
Messages
128
Location
Concord, North Carolina, USA
I recently wrote to Mobil 1 and asked the following question: "Concerning the seal conditioning agents found in High Mileage oil, do they also swell the seals and gaskets or is its purpose only to provide special conditioning to the gaskets and seals." The reply from Mobil 1: "The function of seal conditioners in ALL of our oils is to keep your soft seals flexible and pliable. This allows them to conform to little surface irregularities and machining imperfections, to keep the oil on the inside. My High Mileage oils contain a slightly higher conditioner content, intended to help if we have a problem seal."

It was my understanding that only High Mileage oils contained seal conditioners. But apparently ALL (at least Mobil 1) oils contain seal conditioners although High Mileage oils contain slightly more. Nothing was mentioned about the seal conditioners producing any swelling effect on gaskets and seals, at least not directly. Only a reference was made to this higher conditioner content having some effect on a 'problem seal.' So I am still not clear on whether or not seal conditioners also produce a swelling effect on gaskets and seals.
 
kschachn said:
All API licensed oils contain seal conditioners and I’ll guess most European approvals do as well. FWIW ExxonMobil used to call them “seal swellers” on their website but about 4-5 years ago they changed the terminology.
Click to expand...
Was the terminology changed because the formulation changed and now the conditioners do not cause a swelling effect? Or was it changed in order to use a more appropriate term based on all the good effects of conditioners? Do conditioners still cause swelling today regardless of the name change?
 
Baracoa said:
I posted exactly what I asked and exactly what they wrote.
Click to expand...
Gotcha.. Thanks, just was making sure... I did guess that almost all conventional oils would have the additive pack, I just couldn't be sure. I wonder if a special type of oil is manufactured for internal combustion engines that lacks the additive pack.. Like the type used on drag cars and nascar engines, etc... So I'm wondering if there can be a drawback to those additives in certain circumstances..
 
Many seals shrink and harden over time, or in bad operational conditions or maintenance, wear excessively. You only want the amount of *conditioner* (aka sweller until it became unfashionable to use that term so their marketing considers it bad to use that term now) needed to keep the seal, sealing. Non-HM oil has the right amount in it for long term use, only when they are very old or a bad design, is extra "conditioning" needed. More often it is due to not doing timely oil changes.

Use of HM oil to make an excessively shrunken seal, larger and more pliable can help it to seal again, but it also slowly wears all the other seals that didn't need it, at a faster rate. Engineers did not spec a seal size and density without thinking about, including use of the oil spec listed in the owners manual. What owners manual specifies to switch to HM oil?

If it were Super Wonderful to have the extra seal "conditioners" in regular oil for cars that didn't have leaking seals, it would be in all the top tier product SKUs.

Stop trying to over think it. You use HM oil if you have seal issues. You don't, if you don't. The last thing an oil company PR agent is going to do is hint to you that use of (any of) their product is going to cause more wear, even if at only a little higher rate. Why would they when they already tell you the purpose of the product yet people choose to ignore that? It's somewhat hilarious.

You do not want your seals any more "conditioned" than needed to seal. Any more than that, wears them faster. The reality is that people don't understand that if they are just starting to come upon a situation where seals need a little more conditioner, they would be better off substituting only a fraction of their regular oil with HM, then increasing that fractional amount as the wear continues to worsen rather than the shotgun approach of wearing other seals more than needed to combat the leaky one(s).
 
Last edited:
I think people are buying into marketing.

They act like HM is something different. It's an oil that meets API specifications. Many blenders may use the absolute minimum seal conditioner needed to meet API requirements in their standard products. Why spend more? Unless it can bring more profit (HM).
 
Baracoa said:
Was the terminology changed because the formulation changed and now the conditioners do not cause a swelling effect? Or was it changed in order to use a more appropriate term based on all the good effects of conditioners? Do conditioners still cause swelling today regardless of the name change?
Click to expand...
I think they are one in the same but I’m not much of a polymer chemist.
 
Dave9 said:
Use of HM oil to make an excessively shrunken seal, larger and more pliable can help it to seal again, but it also slowly wears all the other seals that didn't need it, at a faster rate.
Click to expand...
With all the "made no difference" claims, seemingly to me the big majority of HM users, I've concluded the effect on seals is very, very minimal. Do you really think they have that drastic an effect?

I've always switched to HM about the 75k or so point because I don't want a leak. I figure it's good for the seals at that age. I really don't know though. I think we need some folks to remove seals exposed to HM oil for a long time and spec them to know.
 
Silver said:
With all the "made no difference" claims, seemingly to me the big majority of HM users, I've concluded the effect on seals is very, very minimal. Do you really think they have that drastic an effect?

I've always switched to HM about the 75k or so point because I don't want a leak. I figure it's good for the seals at that age. I really don't know though. I think we need some folks to remove seals exposed to HM oil for a long time and spec them to know.
Click to expand...

Buy three new seals. Measure them.in multiple dimensions.

Drop them in containers of each of the following.

Supertech Blend
Valvoline HM ML Blend
Mobil 1 EP

Seal containers for 30 days then take them out and measure them. I have a suspicion that that both the VML and M1.EP will be slightly larger. After all the seal conditioner in M1 EP needs to be effective for 20,000 mi.
 
kschachn said:
One would run ASTM D7216 or one of the several European tests including DIN 53521.
Click to expand...

Seems overly complex to answer the simple question of "Will the HM Oil cause significantly more swell?". I'm skeptical that the difference is very large. I suspect some standard oils have just as much "conditioner" as some HM oils.
 
Gene K said:
Seems overly complex to answer the simple question of "Will the HM Oil cause significantly more swell?". I'm skeptical that the difference is very large. I suspect some standard oils have just as much "conditioner" as some HM oils.
Click to expand...
I know personally, in my own vehicle when I first bought it I used Valvoline Maxlife synthetic blend for about 10,000 miles, the previous oil was Motorcraft synthetic blend which I ran I believe for one oil change, the previous owner used Motorcraft as well. I Never noticed a difference with either oils, both oils was 5W20 never used oil with either.. Now I'm running Kirkland synthetic 5W20.
But that will be getting drained out here soon and since I can't get it anymore I will change to a different brand. And that will probably be Quaker State..
 
Gene K said:
Seems overly complex to answer the simple question of "Will the HM Oil cause significantly more swell?". I'm skeptical that the difference is very large. I suspect some standard oils have just as much "conditioner" as some HM oils.
Click to expand...
You think you can accurately measure a seal diameter down to the precision required to determine if it would cause wear or be excessively worn in operation?
 
kschachn said:
You think you can accurately measure a seal diameter down to the precision required to determine if it would cause wear or be excessively worn in operation?
Click to expand...

No.

Kind of supposed that was the whole purpose of the seal compatibility test they all passed.

I simply proposed an experiment to see if it was possible to tell a difference after long term seal exposure to different oils.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

E
Which HM oil for swelling rubber seals?
Replies
17
Views
2K
hrv
AZjeff
Synthetic oil dries out seals.
2 3
Replies
49
Views
6K
SumGuy
T
Used HIgh Mileage oil in my low mileage vehicle, am I causing damage?
2
Replies
26
Views
5K
zrxkawboy
H
2023 High Mileage Oil comparison
2 3 4
Replies
62
Views
16K
malibuguy79
N
Recommend an oil choice to me - used 2005 Highlander V6
2
Replies
37
Views
2K
nthach
Back
Top