Schaeffer ATF + LubeGard == Mopar ATF+4?

[OneQuartLow]

My two daily drivers are Chrysler automatics. They require ATF+3 or better fluids. I've used Amsoil Universal ATF with success but for reasons not useful here would like an alternative.

Has anyone managed to analyze the properties of an ATF to gauge suitability? I could test Chrysler +4, and then virgin Schaeffer/M1/..., and then a blend with LubeGard HFM supplement. Would other lab tests provide a better picture? What, besides real-world testing, would I be missing? Edit: Do I need to request specific tests in addition to the usual engine oil tests?

I still need to speak with Lubegard about their supplement. I hear from others it's a quality product, but ATF is mysterious enough to me that I need to know they're comfortable about compatibility.

David

[ December 06, 2002, 05:09 PM: Message edited by: OneQuartLow ]

 

[Al]

I just posted an analysis for Mobil 1 ATF. I forgot to specify that it has lubeguard in it. The container is like 10 oz., I think.

 

[MavRick]

quote:

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Originally posted by Al:
I just posted an analysis for Mobil 1 ATF. I forgot to specify that it has lubeguard in it. The container is like 10 oz., I think.

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Al, Was looking for your analysis but couldn't find it. Mind giving me a pointer? Thanks

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

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Originally posted by OneQuartLow:
My two daily drivers are Chrysler automatics. They require ATF+3 or better fluids. I've used Amsoil Universal ATF with success but for reasons not useful here would like an alternative.

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I posted about this a few months ago on rec.autos.makers.chryslers. ATF+4 (MS-9602) is probably the most unique ATF on the market. There are currently only two companies that make it for Chrysler: Equilon and Petro-Canada. One of the reasons you don't see any aftermarket ATF+4 on the shelf down at Wal-Mart is because in addition to the Mopar spec sheet requiring certain performance criteria for this fluid, Chrysler also specifies the exact base oil and additive content. The unique friction characteristics of this fluid are achieved by the additive polymers in conjuction with two different Group III base oils as well as a hydrotreated naphthenic base oil. This is not something that can be achieved by attempting a "mix your own ATF" using snake oil additives in Dexron or Mercon fluids.

The ONLY safe ATF to use in a Chrysler automatic transmission that calls for ATF+4 is Mopar ATF+4.

 

[ben walker]

"The ONLY safe ATF to use in a Chrysler automatic transmission that calls for ATF+4 is Mopar ATF+4."
Thats what I suspected. the thing I dont understand is how amsoil oil can claim there universal meets the atf+4 specs. Thats really dishonest in my book. Saying that your product meets a spec when it cant possibly.

 

[Ken2]

Pennzoil also has a multi-vehicle ATF which they say is good for just about everything including +4.

Considering this, and Amsoil's universal ATF, and Lube-Gard's universal additive and Chrysler + additive, there might be something to consider about the universal products....needs more investigation.

Ken

[ December 10, 2002, 11:54 AM: Message edited by: Ken2 ]

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

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Originally posted by Ken2:
Pennzoil also has a multi-vehicle ATF which they say is good for just about everything including +4 http://www.pennzoil.com/penn/products/car_truck/pdfs/gearoil/MultiVehic leAutomaticTransmissionFluid.pdf

Considering this, and Amsoil's universal ATF, and Lube-Gard's universal additive and Chrysler + additive, there might be something to consider about the universal products....needs more investigation.

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There is a big difference between saying a product can be used where a certain spec is required and saying the product meets the spec. Keep in mind that ATF+4 is a registered trademark of DC (as is ATF +3) and they must approve its use on the label of any fluid. Also, as I posted above, the DC spec sheet for +4 not only lists what performance criteria must be met, it lists the actual base oil types and additives that must be used. Hence, you won't find any of these fluids actually claiming to meet the ATF+4 specs.

As far as this Pennzoil fluid goes, I can tell you with a pour point of -45*C, it does NOT meet the MS-9602 spec, which calls for a pour point of at least -50*C. The MS-9602 also calls for a VI of >200; the VI for this Pennzoil fluid is 185.