Safest way to wreck a bike?

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I think he was wearing a helmet, or at least had a helmet with him. you can see a yellow helmet at 2:14 in the news report.

http://abc11.com/news/police-charges-likely-in-crash-that-killed-soldier/832258/

Also, I don't believe this is a case of lane splitting. I think there are 3 lanes that the left turn vehicle needed to cross, and lanes 1 and 3 had cars that stopped and left a gap for the truck to turn. The rider came down through the middle lane and went into the side of the truck.

It appears to me to be a very unfortunate accident. I don't think either driver was malicious or excessively reckless. Could have been avoided if both drivers (especially the pickup driver) drove more defensively.


Back on topic though, I agree that trying to slow down as much as possible is almost always the best bet.
 
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm

I just don't get this constant "splitting lanes" stupidity people on motorcycles insist on doing.


Oh God, me either! And its freaking LEGAL in some states (California, for one). We have a ton of ex-Californians moving to central Texas, and every once in a while you run across a bike rider who doesn't know lane-splitting is illegal here (or doesn't care). Its bad enough when you know it might happen (driving in CA), but it REALLY takes people by surprise when they're not expecting it or looking for it at all. And driver reactions... well... the biker sure doesn't get any extra credibility or slack from that point onward, let's just put it that way.
 
California motorcycle riders are dying less often from being rear-ended than those in other states. It's safer to be between two large vehicles when another large vehicle approaching from the rear fails to stop. Lane splitting has safety benefits.

And California is the only state in which it's legal and only because it isn't expressly prohibited. Oregon is looking at allowing lane splitting.
 
Originally Posted By: Joshua_Skinner
It's safer to be between two large vehicles when another large vehicle approaching from the rear fails to stop. Lane splitting has safety benefits


That's definitely logical but it can apply to any "concrete" object. But blatant and wreckless lane splitting simply to drive faster than the flow of traffic in order to "get ahead" instead of riding single file with the flow is wreckless and dangerous,with the potential to be deadly. To me it should be classified as "failure to maintain within your lane" which is a ticketable traffic offense here in Texas.
 
Originally Posted By: Joshua_Skinner
California motorcycle riders are dying less often from being rear-ended than those in other states. It's safer to be between two large vehicles when another large vehicle approaching from the rear fails to stop. Lane splitting has safety benefits.

And California is the only state in which it's legal and only because it isn't expressly prohibited. Oregon is looking at allowing lane splitting.



I think that's a very specific situation that produces a benefit, and that it doesn't offset a very broad range of situations where risk is highly increased.
 
As a rider and someone that lived thru an accident. You must be experienced and mature enough to see developing dangerous situations and adjust your SPEED DIFFERENTIAL accordingly. This is what kills you. That poor kid didn't have experience to understand that around slow/stopped traffic is probably the most dangerous place to be going fast.

When gas prices went up a lot of people thought that riding a bike was a good idea with NO clue that you cant drive around brain dead like they do in a car.
 
I'm a life-long Motorcyclist. Well, since the age of 6, anyway.

The safest way to wreck a bike, is to have the experience and skill to avoid the wreck in the first place.

Accelerating hard past a stopped line of cars, is an accident waiting to happen. You can almost guarantee someone in one of those stopped cars will decide to get over into the clear (as far as they can tell) lane. In a similar situation, I'd be rolling along at low speed, with the front brake lever covered with two fingers (which I already do all the time anyway) ready to quickly come to a stop.

"I had to lay the bike down" is just code for the person lacking the skill to maneuver and brake their bike hard, in an emergency situation.

Even people that have no desire to ride on a racetrack, can find an empty stretch of road to practice hard braking.

I'm always amazed by Riders that refuse to, or are afraid to use their front brake. The majority of a bikes stopping power is the front brake. Learn to use it effectively, because one day your life might depend on it.

As for lane-splitting, where it is legal, it has been proven to be safer, and it reduces traffic congestion. Of course the law also states that lane-splitting (or lane-sharing) shouldn't be done at large differences in vehicle speeds. Ie: don't lane-split stopped traffic at 60, for example.
 
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Yes, this rider was wearing a helmet. And the accident was not caused by lane splitting. Here's the scenario:

There are three travel lanes going westbound here. Left (closest to the median), middle, and right (curb side). The left and middle lanes were filled with stopped traffic, waiting for a traffic signal ahead. The right lane was clear, as it's a dedicated right turn lane at the traffic signal. About 100 yards prior to the traffic signal, there's an apartment complex. The Tundra was traveling eastbound, and trying to turn left across stopped westbound traffic to get to the apartment complex.

I had just approached the back of the traffic line in the left lane, which had the longest line of vehicles by two or three car lengths. The motorcyclist approached from either the left or the center lane; I am not certain. At some point, he was in the center lane, and had slowed down quite a bit. He quickly jumped into the right lane and, again, I could hear him accelerate through one gear, change gears, then accelerate through the subsequent gear. Then quiet.

I could not see the impact directly. I saw the Tundra drive a very short distance down the apartment complex entrance and stop. This stopping caught my attention (unusual). I then saw that the side of the Tundra was smashed. I instantly knew what happened. I scanned back toward the intersection and saw part of the bike on the ground.

Many bystanders ran up to the scene. Some motorists moved their cars and pulled over to stop. There was a uniformed police officer in a plain car traveling eastbound that stopped and the officer ran over. As I could add nothing to the situation, I drove away. I called the police department later and gave them my cell phone number as a witness for their investigation. I did not receive a call back.

From my perspective, the pickup driver likely should get a citation for not yielding the right-of-way, or whatever the appropriate citation is for that sort of thing. The motorcyclist, while perhaps not breaking the law, put himself at great risk by accelerating so rapidly in an open lane next to a solid wall of cars, where you have NO escape.

I remember the BMW-motorcyclist thread from a few weeks ago, and I made a statement that rings true in this instance as well. As a motorcyclist, a vehicle operator at greater physical risk than others, you have to be both legal and smart to arrive home safe. Unfortunately, this rider was not both, and he paid the ultimate price.

I feel bad for the Tundra driver. He made the turn, but I think the motorcyclist contributed at least as much to the outcome of the situation. As the Tundra driver got out of his truck, he was carrying a 2-3 year old boy in his arms. I knew he had to be shaken up emotionally, and I know that child had to have been terrified.
 
Originally Posted By: 02SE
Accelerating hard past a stopped line of cars, is an accident waiting to happen. You can almost guarantee someone in one of those stopped cars will decide to get over into the clear (as far as they can tell) lane.


Yep---my dad always taught me to drive "expecting the unexpected". I don't ride a motorcycle (can you tell, from my ignorance in this thread?), but even in a car...you see this type of accident all the time. Whether it's a car in a stopped lane that pulls out or one trying to cross stopped traffic -- you cannot assume that your lane will remain clear.

Legally, you own that space. Physically, you have to plan for someone else to enter it.
 
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd

I feel bad for the Tundra driver. He made the turn, but I think the motorcyclist contributed at least as much to the outcome of the situation.


The article you linked indicated that "charges would likely be filed."

Dang, that's a tough situation. On the one hand, turning across multiple lanes of stopped traffic like that is risky (even if people are waving you on, you have to ignore them unless you can see the first in line of every possible lane, and are sure they all see you). I don't think its illegal in and of itself, but it sets you up for a charge of "failing to yield" to a vehicle in a "hidden" lane as in this case. On the other hand, its a practical solution to avoiding gridlock that would work OK if *everyone* were on their game, behaving cautiously, and paying attention.

What really hurts is that the city (or county- whoever) is just as much to blame since they'd denied a traffic light at that driveway, simply because another one existed nearby. If they knew that traffic flow indicated a light was needed but would have been too close to an existing light, they should have set up a center barrier to prevent left turns like the Tundra made, forcing traffic to go on to the next light and make a U-turn to get back into the un-signalled apartment entrance via a right turn.
 
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Originally Posted By: Joshua_Skinner
It's safer to be between two large vehicles when another large vehicle approaching from the rear fails to stop. Lane splitting has safety benefits


That's definitely logical but it can apply to any "concrete" object. But blatant and wreckless lane splitting simply to drive faster than the flow of traffic in order to "get ahead" instead of riding single file with the flow is wreckless and dangerous,with the potential to be deadly. To me it should be classified as "failure to maintain within your lane" which is a ticketable traffic offense here in Texas.


Its very possible to be reckless while "maintaining your lane", too. When traffic is backed up for as far as the eye can see, I don't feel that I am endangering anyone by idling along in 1st gear so as to not be listening to my engine overheat while waiting to be rear ended. Not legal where I live, but I will most definately do it under duress.

The CHP guidelines that were published frame up some best practices for lane splitting that are absolutely reasonable. Some tools complained about the guidelines and they were taken out of circulation, but they are still on the net.

..."wreckless" is my goal on every ride, haha
thumbsup2.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
...
I feel bad for the Tundra driver. He made the turn, but I think the motorcyclist contributed at least as much to the outcome of the situation. As the Tundra driver got out of his truck, he was carrying a 2-3 year old boy in his arms. I knew he had to be shaken up emotionally, and I know that child had to have been terrified.


Who's going to feel bad for Pfc. Holden Jeffrey Philbrook, 2nd Battalion, 325th Airborne Infantry Regiment, 2nd Brigade Combat Team, 82nd Airborne Division.



I do.

635719599723014405-airborne-soldier-killed.jpg
 
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Originally Posted By: 02SE
I'm a life-long Motorcyclist. Well, since the age of 6, anyway.

The safest way to wreck a bike, is to have the experience and skill to avoid the wreck in the first place.

Accelerating hard past a stopped line of cars, is an accident waiting to happen. You can almost guarantee someone in one of those stopped cars will decide to get over into the clear (as far as they can tell) lane. In a similar situation, I'd be rolling along at low speed, with the front brake lever covered with two fingers (which I already do all the time anyway) ready to quickly come to a stop.

"I had to lay the bike down" is just code for the person lacking the skill to maneuver and brake their bike hard, in an emergency situation.

Even people that have no desire to ride on a racetrack, can find an empty stretch of road to practice hard braking.

I'm always amazed by Riders that refuse to, or are afraid to use their front brake. The majority of a bikes stopping power is the front brake. Learn to use it effectively, because one day your life might depend on it.

As for lane-splitting, where it is legal, it has been proven to be safer, and it reduces traffic congestion. Of course the law also states that lane-splitting (or lane-sharing) shouldn't be done at large differences in vehicle speeds. Ie: don't lane-split stopped traffic at 60, for example.


Well said!
I use the heck out of the front brake. I rarely use the rear, although i stay ready to.
 
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That's the second time I've heard of someone being waved through causing a fatality. Goldwings had an airbag option. Not sure they still do.
 
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
If they knew that traffic flow indicated a light was needed but would have been too close to an existing light, they should have set up a center barrier to prevent left turns like the Tundra made, forcing traffic to go on to the next light and make a U-turn to get back into the un-signalled apartment entrance via a right turn.


They need a barrier, yes. Unfortunately, and this is a huge problem I have with the way they design stuff like this here, all they'll ever do is a "soft barrier"...bolt-on curbing or a poured curb with ramped sides. I don't know if that's to enable emergency vehicles to cross it easily, but it sure does enable civilian vehicles to cross it easily. It's very common to see folks driving across these soft barriers all the time. They seem very resistant to engineering real curbed medians. I suppose it's all about trying to stretch limited funding.
 
Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
Who's going to feel bad for Pfc. Holden Jeffrey Philbrook, 2nd Battalion, 325th Airborne Infantry Regiment, 2nd Brigade Combat Team, 82nd Airborne Division.


I feel sorry for his family -- they have to live with what happened.

I will admit to bias in this situation -- it's so frustrating to see young Soldiers like him either kill themselves or get killed due to poor decision-making on motorcycles. In this case, the Tundra driver will probably get the citation for crossing an occupied travel lane. He didn't do it in malice -- neither driver had poor intentions in this case. Just poor decision-making on the part of both. The Tundra driver will live with it (which is why I feel bad for him). The motorcyclist won't, and does not suffer with a feeling of loss or pain. His family will, his friends will, his unit will, and I do feel for them.

But dang, I just cringe when I see kids like this fly down unoccupied lanes, run 1/2 mile down the road on their back wheel only, dart in and out out of traffic, not really choosing one lane or the other, but both at the same time... I see that stuff happen and I often slow way down or take another route -- I don't want to see them smeared across the road.

But it happens SO OFTEN here. It's so senseless to me, the additional risk they take above and beyond the risk inherent to simply operating a vehicle on a public road. They're obviously getting something out of it that I'll never understand; a rush or a thrill. But still, their friends need them; their family needs them; their Army needs them; their country needs them.

Based on my exposure to it (work), I think the Army does a fair job of attempting to drill into these guys' heads the consequences of some of the risks they take during their off hours. I've sat through the grotesque training slides they show, accompanied by very graphic stories from a safety officer who has been out there and cleaned up many accidents like this one. The training is out there, and I think they're trying hard to get it into their heads, but it just doesn't seem to stick in many cases.

I don't know what the answer is. Maybe there isn't a better one -- maybe this is just the nature of the beast with such a concentrated population of young men like Fayetteville is.
 
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
...It got me to thinking. If the motorcyclist had enough reaction time, is it safer to try to lay the bike down (or jump off) and slide, or do you have a better chance trying to work the brakes and ride it out?...

As background I've taken the MSF experienced rider course through the local community college three times over the years. And until I sold my Road King last summer have ridden off and on for a couple decades at least.

As for the question, ideally and in a perfect world using proper braking technique is the preferable method. And perhaps bikes with antilock brakes make that decision more affirmative. That said, these events/incidents don't exist in a vacuum.

As an example, some years ago I had an experience right at the end of my neighborhood street. Headed down the street, saw a car turn into the neighborhood then at some point he quickly veered into my path/lane very close in front of me, apparently in an attempt park facing the direction I was coming. I processed as quickly as possible that if he kept coming I would lay the bike down on it's side, and slide with the bike at least until on the ground. I weighed that against the alternative of getting perfect brake proportioning (no abs) and stopping in time, and if I couldn't, risking a "high side" crash the would send me over the top of his hood, windshield and roof. The former option at the time seemed more appropriate 'for me' and preferable to the latter. Some asphalt rash and a destroyed bike leading the way on it's side into his vehicle seemed preferable to a cranial perch into his windshield.

Luckily, I had just enough time and space to brake enough and move to the left of center side of the road and the blind or inattentive driver didn't attempt another sudden move back to the proper lane. Honestly don't think he every saw me until I was by him. Neighbor's son told his dad who relayed it to me, he saw it happen and that my riding maneuver likely saved an bad accident, mostly for me.

As for the incident no comment as I didn't see it. I did find a link below thanks to DuckRyder posting the name of the deceased soldier that seems to have a good explantion of events surrounding the soldier's tragic death.

http://abc11.com/news/motorcyclist-seriously-injured-in-fayetteville-crash-/832258/

I will say as an 'my editorial' comment, 'in my observation' I note many of the comments on this site tend to be anti-motorcycle/motorcyclist. Not sure if it's because those commenting have never ridden a bike. Or perhaps it's some I stereotype of motorcyclists in general not based on personal knowledge. But that is 'my perception.' I say this too referencing the recent thread where one comment regarding the hit motorcyclist is, "he got what he deserved" SMH!

Have no bike at the moment and perhaps my age is a factor in that decision. But, incidents with inattentive drivers like the one I described seemed to be becoming more common. While I won't say I'll 'never ride again', more of a risk than I care to take at this point. In other words the risk reward aren't worth it.

Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
.....Who's going to feel bad for Pfc. Holden Jeffrey Philbrook, 2nd Battalion, 325th Airborne Infantry Regiment, 2nd Brigade Combat Team, 82nd Airborne Division.



I do.

635719599723014405-airborne-soldier-killed.jpg


Thanks for posting this a putting a face to the deceased soldier.
 
Originally Posted By: 4wheeldog
Using the brakes (And tires) to the limits of their power will burn off much more speed than metal sliding on asphalt. Or the human body sliding, as the case may be.



This is correct ... stay with the bike ... and, in the future if you have an ABS option for your new bike, TAKE IT.

Its ONE reason I purchased like I did, my 14 ROAD KING ABS system is awesome. Darn bike can stop on a dime, no matter how you hit the brakes, front or rear, doesnt matter, ABS takes over, tires dont skid, all you hear is a "chirp" of both tires stopping at the same time.
I highly recommend.

When I heard about ABS years ago I was against it, didnt want bikes getting to complicated, then when I read up on it I was sold.
In 6000 miles I only had one hard brake and ironically it was on the first day I owned the bike.
70+ MPH and cars on the interstate came to a slamming stop, I hit the brakes and was shocked to hear nothing but a chirp and short effortless stop, this also allowed me the time to watch my mirror and be ready to move to the side if the car behind me wasnt going to stop in time.
I WAS SOLD ! *L*
Think about it, see a deer in the road?, you can focus on steering, let the bike worry about the braking ...
 
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