Rotella T6 5w40 OK for very short intervals?

so you really don't trust your senses to detect changes happening on a machine you've ridden for years and 1000s of miles?

After 57 years of riding and racing I know what a perfect smooth shift
feels like and I know how to modify my RC45 to get it...

I designed and machined my own 7075 T6 billet rear sets that employs
ball bearings and Mil spec rod ends...

I modified a KTM dirt bike chain pad to minimize chain snatch...

I machined my own Delrin quick throttle barrel for that instant wide
open action...

I installed a $750 billet Brembo clutch master cylinder...

I grade my shifts between 1 an 100 on every ride... if I don't perform
in the 85% or higher range I give myself a good talking too... I know
enough about riding and racing to never blamed the 30 grade oil...

RC45RearSetShift..JPG

ChainGlider (2).JPG

DelrinThrottleBarrel.JPG

RC45SpiderGrip01.JPG
 
I grade my shifts between 1 an 100 on every ride... if I don't perform
in the 85% or higher range I give myself a good talking too... I know
enough about riding and racing to never blamed the 30 grade oil...
I shoot for no less than 98% ... 😄
 
What I'm saying is anyone who is an inexperienced rider and/or not "tuned into" well with the bike will have no idea how tell any difference in shift quality. Knowing how to execute a perfect shift will help to not mask the oil variable in shift quality. So, since you sound like an experience rider, are you saying you have never sensed any changes in the way your bike shifts based on the oil used, or how long the oil is ran?

Keep in mind that not all transmissions are designed the same, and some are most likely more sensitive to the quality and condition of the oil used compared to others. I've owned and ridden enough motorcycles to know some shift better than others due to design. The difference between my Busa and XSR900 is really noticeable ... the Busa has a super short shift pedal throw compared to the XSR which actually makes it easier to shift the Busa.
No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm just saying the the level of riding experience has little to do with feeling the shifts themselves, unless one just smashes the gears as if they were kicking a football or something, or wears steel toe shoes.

As far as feeling the changes due to oil, yes I have felt a difference, but only a few times that I can remember. But nothing that could be consistently reproduced.

Yes I agree that tranny design has a big impact on shift quality, some are better, some are average and some are great. My Valkyrie for example audibly clunks, especially on downshifts. The shifts are actually smooth and positive feeling, but you have to be quite assertive with them. My KZ650 on the other hand is super smooth, quiet and requires very little touch to shift. The downside is that the shifts don't feel as positive and I found myself in false neutrals a few times.
I don't find the shift quality changing throughout the OCI. Maybe if I switched grades I would feel a difference, but I'm sticking to Delvac 15w40 for these two.
 
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I would like to think motorcycle riders are more in tune with their machines and everything going on around them. However it's a fact with respect to cars that many people simply put the key in and go. This is true for first year drivers as well as drivers who have been on the road for decades. These folks have no clue what the vehicle is telling them with respect to cornering, stopping, accelerating etc. They are blind and ignorant to those things. I'm starting to believe some experienced riders may fall in the same trap.

For an example let's say Moto GP riders use the same front tire or rear compound on two different tracks in consecutive weeks. It's safe to assume, like motor oil, there is consistency from tire to tire just like there is from one batch of a specific oil to another batch of the same oil.

From track to track the rider who won the week before ends up back in the pack because the same front or rear tire doesn't work with a different track the next week. And riders will tell you they lost the front end feel or the back end is vague. Would you tell them they have no way to logically say that since it's not something they can quantify with an experiment other than the seat of their pants?

It's a very simple Segway to know the same motor oil will perform differently in different bikes, and that shift quality is something that is easy to judge and talk about in experienced rider circles.
 
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It's a very simple Segway to know the same motor oil will perform differently in different bikes, and that shift quality is something that is easy to judge and talk about in experienced rider circles.

Let's not move the post here. The discussion started about feeling a difference in shift quality as the oil shears down few cSts, not how one oil performs in different transmissions.
 
It's funny how people can't understand that a rider can feel a difference in how the motorcycle operates.

I know my bike. I can feel if the shifting is clunky. I can hear if the engine rattles more. I can feel if my tire is low on air. I can feel when my front tire should be replaced before the wear bars say it should. Some people just know their bikes.

I'm not saying Rotella T6 is a bad oil. I'm saying I won't put in my motorcycles again. When shift feel comes back after switching brands (to Mobil 1 for example), that's a clue to me. Then the next change at triple the miles, shift quality is still good and no noticeable change with a fresh fill (of Mobil 1). I don't need a scientific test.

T6 5W-40 lasted 1500 miles in my ST1300 and shifted like yuck at the end.
Mobil 1 4T 10W-40, Castrol ActEvo 4T 10w-40 and Valvoline Syn 4T 10w-40 all went 6500+ miles and still shifted good.
That's enough for me.

I don't recommend T6, but others really like it. My bike does not like it.
 
It's funny how people can't understand that a rider can feel a difference in how the motorcycle operates.
I can hear if the engine rattles more
It's funny the more you know about how a motorcycle operates the more you understand how humans are easily fooled...

 
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Let's not move the post here. The discussion started about feeling a difference in shift quality as the oil shears down few cSts, not how one oil performs in different transmissions.
If you want to do an experiment on how your transmission reacts to a change to a few cSt in viscosity, run a 10W-30, 10W-40 and a 10W-50 (all in the same brand so the chance of them having the same add pack is close) that all have had 5000 miles put on them . Pre-condition them all to 5000 miles in an engine/machine that will shear them the same, then put the oils in your bike so you can do back-to-back shift testing without riding all those miles. I highly doubt the shifting will feel exactly the same in that test. Would your transmission shift the same if it was lubricated with WD-40 or kerosene (extreme example)? The viscosity and AF/AW additives should have an impact, and how the oil retains its lubrication properties with use is also a factor. As mentioned before, how sensitive the shift quality is can also be dependant on the mechanical design of the transmission. Lots of factors at play.
 
It's funny the more you know about how a motorcycle operates the more you understand how humans are easily fooled...


At least he was aware of a change in "engine sound", unlike some would. But with a Ducati, many wouldn't anyway because they are a rattle trap at idle, lol.
 
Let's not move the post here. The discussion started about feeling a difference in shift quality as the oil shears down few cSts, not how one oil performs in different transmissions.
I can understand and respect this post. However you've picked and chosen what to reference. The whole context of what I said is not represented. With some of the other ridiculous, ignorant information being posted, curious this is being mentioned at this point.

Absolutely fits here.
 
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I ran t6 in my sport bike, and does fine for 1100 miles,

BTW Amsoil 15w40, at 2000 miles, produced identical wear numbers and viscosity break down



i ran t6 in my drz, 2000 miles many times
 
I can understand and respect this post. However you've picked and chosen what to reference. The whole context of what I said is not represented. With some of the other ridiculous, ignorant information being posted, curious this is being mentioned at this point.

Absolutely fits here.
Ok, fine I can go over your entire post if you like. It would also be nice if you pointed out the ignorant information I posted, so that perhaps we can discuss it further or a can learn something new and stop being ignorant.

I would like to think motorcycle riders are more in tune with their machines and everything going on around them. However it's a fact with respect to cars that many people simply put the key in and go. This is true for first year drivers as well as drivers who have been on the road for decades. These folks have no clue what the vehicle is telling them with respect to cornering, stopping, accelerating etc. They are blind and ignorant to those things. I'm starting to believe some experienced riders may fall in the same trap.
Riding a motorcycle is automatically a more "connected" experience then cars because you are less insulated from engine noise, vibrations etc.
I would say that riding a motorcycle definitely requires more mental attention and unique skill set not transferable from driving 4 wheel vehicles. But there are many recent technological advancements, like ABS, cornering ABS, traction control brake force distribution etc. that while make riding safer, require a lot of less attention from the rider to the things you described. So the things you attribute to car drivers are happening to motorcycle riders as well due to technical advancements.

This has nothing to do with being "in tune" with the machine, but with basic human nature. Our attention span and concentration is a finite resource. We can only multitask on few things and only for a short period of time. That's where technology comes in and supplements our shortcomings.
Just put any rider that only rode motorcycles with a gear number display on something that doesn't have that and most likely the very first thing he/she will complain about is that they don't know which gear they're in. Does that make the rider less " in tune" or less safe or capabale because they rely on a display?


For an example let's say Moto GP riders use the same front tire or rear compound on two different tracks in consecutive weeks. It's safe to assume, like motor oil, there is consistency from tire to tire just like there is from one batch of a specific oil to another batch of the same oil.

From track to track the rider who won the week before ends up back in the pack because the same front or rear tire doesn't work with a different track the next week. And riders will tell you they lost the front end feel or the back end is vague. Would you tell them they have no way to logically say that since it's not something they can quantify with an experiment other than the seat of their pants?

This is a ridiculous example. Driving and riding on the very edge requires feel, instincts, experience, talent, basically all the right stuff that for the most part cannot be measured. How do you measure talent? It's not even remotely in the same category as feeling a difference in shift quality and attributing it to oil shear. Why would you even compare the two is beyond me.
And I've mentioned it before, that there could be other things contributing to the phenomenon, but you guys keep saying it's oil shear.
Do you even realize how minute the oil viscosity of few cSts is? But you guys keep saying you're so "in tune" with your machine that for sure you can feel it.

I don't doubt you feel the difference, I think I said that at least once in this thread. But I do doubt it's because of oil shear.
 
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Disagree, I wouldn't be pointing the finger at "ridiculous"... Not sure the level of experience you have however it's showing that it's possibly from a book or a forum versus seat of the pants or your shifting toe. Is that the right foot/toe?

Talent level has nothing to do with physical grip of tires on a road surface. A guy who is just starting out to ride can say he feels like the bike isn't planted just as much as a guy riding on the edge can say the same thing. Sensations and feelings happen at all levels and are very perceptible. Guys on the street can tell the difference in front/rear feel and grip. I can depending on the road surface, the temperature, all those things make up feel. Just like varying riding conditions, temperatures, age of oil, brand/weight of oil give a feel that is not going to be discussed away.
 
Why doesn't the "you can't feel it" crowd kill discussions of shifting manual trans cars?
Because everyone pretty much drives an automatic these days, lol. I've seen plenty of discussions on chat boards years ago where people said using certain transmission oils improved the shifting in their 5 or 6 speed manuals. Guess car drivers aren't as "numb" as cycle riders ... should be the other way around. 😄
 
Riding a motorcycle is automatically a more "connected" experience then cars because you are less insulated from engine noise, vibrations etc.
I would say that riding a motorcycle definitely requires more mental attention and unique skill set not transferable from driving 4 wheel vehicles. But there are many recent technological advancements, like ABS, cornering ABS, traction control brake force distribution etc. that while make riding safer, require a lot of less attention from the rider to the things you described. So the things you attribute to car drivers are happening to motorcycle riders as well due to technical advancements.

This has nothing to do with being "in tune" with the machine, but with basic human nature. Our attention span and concentration is a finite resource. We can only multitask on few things and only for a short period of time. That's where technology comes in and supplements our shortcomings.
Just put any rider that only rode motorcycles with a gear number display on something that doesn't have that and most likely the very first thing he/she will complain about is that they don't know which gear they're in. Does that make the rider less " in tune" or less safe or capabale because they rely on a display?
My 2000 Busa has zero rider tech advancements ... it's just a pure animal machine. Not even a gear display. My XSR900 has ABS, traction control, rider modes, gear position, etc ... but it does not make me any less aware or more "relaxed" while riding. It's the first bike I've ever owned with that kind of tech. I ride every machine like it's the Busa, with zero rider nannies. The biggest "nannie" should be your brain (the CPU) that's connected to the bike through your hands and feet.
 
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I don't doubt you feel the difference, I think I said that at least once in this thread. But I do doubt it's because of oil shear.
It may not be "all" oil shear, but that is part of it. If shift quality degrades as the miles get put on the oil, then it's the oil's lubricating performance changing and nothing else. The only other lubrication properties that could change is the AF/AW additive performance, so it's probably a combo of that and the viscosity changing.
 
If shift quality degrades as the miles get put on the oil, then it's the oil's lubricating performance changing and nothing else.
With out a test to verify ones assumptions it could be the placebo effect... it could be the clutch... it could be lazy foot syndrome... without a test its all guess and by golly...
 
Why doesn't the "you can't feel it" crowd kill discussions of shifting manual trans cars?
I had a 5 speed manual, that was becoming difficult shifting, hard to get into some gears. Vehicle had 150,000 miles, when I drained the tranny oil, it was actually pretty clean I was surprised., but this was just standard GM 80/90 tranny fluid.

I installed Motul Gear oil ester based, and right off the bat did not really feel a differnce. after 10 miles or so, it got better all the way to about 100 miles, so evidently the oil does somehow impregnate the metal.

Its turned out to be an excellent move installing that, tranny shifts much more normal and smooth
 
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