Current user of T6, but what do you experts think of this Fram 15w-40 made by Amalie

[vabeach234]

Hey all, I wanted to come ask the experts here.

Normally in my bikes, I run Rotella T6 15w-40 but I ran into a clearance deal on some Fram Synthetic Blend (made by Amalie) 15w-40 for one of my beater trucks.

Ive done some research but I can't really find any opinions one way or the other on whether or not it's safe to run this in my 4 stroke motorcycles. Now none of my bikes are very expensive models or would be hard or expensive to fix myself, but obviously my main concern is hurting the wet clutches

I don't see anything about JASO specs on the container, but I do see it advertised CI-4 PLUS on the ring which I'm not use to seeing on the Rotellas.

I normally change my motorcycles oil pretty frequently (atleast once a year) as I don't do much riding on any one of them since I have so many.


What say you experts? Can I run this in my cheap motorcycles

Thanks all

 

[JavierH19]

Welcome to the site.

It likely wouldn't be good for the wet clutch, keep using jaso oils in that bike. Other than that it's a good diesel oil.

 

[vabeach234]

Welcome to the site.

It likely wouldn't be good for the wet clutch, keep using jaso oils in that bike. Other than that it's a good diesel oil.

I appreciate the welcome and the response!

Just for my own education, do you know what properties make it not a good candidate for a wet clutch application? Thanks!

 

[JavierH19]

I appreciate the welcome and the response!

Just for my own education, do you know what properties make it not a good candidate for a wet clutch application? Thanks!

Jaso tests for clutch slippage but not particular additive counts but some formulations can have a base oil, friction modifier, and viscosity improver formulation that would make the clutch slip when another won't. High VII or viscosity improvers make it harder to make a jaso rated oil or stay stable with mileage.

 

[ZeeOSix]

I always run a JASO rated oil in my bikes because I don't want to experiment on my expensive machines. Why take the risk just for experimentation sake?

 

[Jimiii]

I have over 400,000 miles on expensive high H. P. Bikes and have NEVER used a Jaso (motorcycle), oil. Never replaced a clutch or had one slip. Look at All The oil analysis, virgin and used and show where they have some special additives ( or leave out something), so the clutch won’t slip. Some don’t have moly, however, some motorcycle oils (redline), have very high levels of moly. Car oil will make the clutch slip is a myth that has been repeated so many times it’s become a commonly believed fairytale.

 

[Chris142]

Similar to Jimii... I have been riding since 1977. Never had a clutch slip or do anything weird using automotive oils.

 

[Ducati996]

I wouldn’t use it in my bike but an old beater truck absolutely!!

 

[Bonz]

I have over 400,000 miles on expensive high H. P. Bikes and have NEVER used a Jaso (motorcycle), oil. Never replaced a clutch or had one slip. Look at All The oil analysis, virgin and used and show where they have some special additives ( or leave out something), so the clutch won’t slip. Some don’t have moly, however, some motorcycle oils (redline), have very high levels of moly. Car oil will make the clutch slip is a myth that has been repeated so many times it’s become a commonly believed fairytale.

Absolutely agree.

My saying I've posted a number of times is no one has shown the "magic pixie dust that is a friction modifier".

I did a deferred maintenance refresh on a Gen 1 Yamaha VMAX last fall. The owner had used nothing but yellow bottle Pennzoil 10w40 conventional oil and there was no sign that clutch had any issues. That engine has pretty good horsepower and torque for its era. Rode it quite a bit dialing in the carburetors. The clutch was solid as it could be.

What I have gleaned from this forum is some oils do contribute to a clutch slipping. It can come from using different brands of oil that are even JASO rated.

Conventional, semi-syn synthetic all have given folks issues based on their individual experience at given times, and by switching oils the problem goes away. Even on new bikes, not just older ones.

Whether it is the oil or a clutch issue is debated quite a bit. By the same token there are many more than not, that never have an issue running non-JASO oil (not just the diesel oils but regular car oil).

 

[Lilliston]

My saying I've posted a number of times is no one has shown the "magic pixie dust that is a friction modifier".

That's probably because they're frequently organic compounds, so one wouldn't be able to see them on the VOAs we see on this forum, or because they are organometallic but indistinguishable in a VOA from other compounds that have the same metal(s) in them.

Here is a link that displays organic FM:

Thread 'Machinery Lubrication Article - Friction Modifiers'

Apr 2, 2016

http://machinerylubricationindia.com/mag...ction-modifiers

not a bad read.

• Shannow
• Replies: 3
• Forum: White Papers and Technical Discussions

I saw a thread here recently that compared results from non-JASO diesel oil, JASO MB oil, and JASO MA oil. It was in this sub-forum. https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...rison-jaso-ma-vs-mb-vs-unrated-in-uoa.389503/. It's unquestionably not a 95%-confidence-interval type of report. It's interesting, though.

Too, one would have to ride a single motorcycle for more miles than >90% of motorcyclists ever put on all the motorcycles they ever own, let along a single motorcycle, for the extra wear to show up.

 

[JB250]

My Opinion. Use it ! I have used multiple brands of 15W-40 in many motorcycles, for the last 47 years of riding. No issues, ever.
My clutches were fine, engines clean and long lasting.

 

[Bonz]

That's probably because they're frequently organic compounds, so one wouldn't be able to see them on the VOAs we see on this forum, or because they are organometallic but indistinguishable in a VOA from other compounds that have the same metal(s) in them.

Here is a link that displays organic FM:

Thread 'Machinery Lubrication Article - Friction Modifiers'

Apr 2, 2016

http://machinerylubricationindia.com/mag...ction-modifiers

not a bad read.

• Shannow
• Replies: 3
• Forum: White Papers and Technical Discussions

I saw a thread here recently that compared results from non-JASO diesel oil, JASO MB oil, and JASO MA oil. It was in this sub-forum. https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...rison-jaso-ma-vs-mb-vs-unrated-in-uoa.389503/. It's unquestionably not a 95%-confidence-interval type of report. It's interesting, though.

Too, one would have to ride a single motorcycle for more miles than >90% of motorcyclists ever put on all the motorcycles they ever own, let along a single motorcycle, for the extra wear to show up.

Thanks for that. For what it's worth, the link gave a page 404 error. I haven't done an exhaustive search on the forum, however I don't recall them named, and there are folks in the industry that show up around here. Again, I haven't done an exhaustive search but it's never mentioned what those compounds are.

 

[ineptizoid]

My Opinion. Use it ! I have used multiple brands of 15W-40 in many motorcycles, for the last 47 years of riding. No issues, ever.
My clutches were fine, engines clean and long lasting.

Yesir, I started using 15w40 HDEO in my motorcycles in the late 90s after I read an article in Motorcycle Consumer News (RIP) where they published oil analysis results comparing various motorcycle-specific oils against Rotella T 15w40. All the test bikes had wet clutches, and with one or two exceptions, the Rotella outperformed the other motorcycle-specific oils. I started buying Rotella and never looked back…after 25+ yrs of use in a dozen bikes, it’s never caused an issue.

I sold a Kawi KLR650 w/72K on the odo, and 60K of those miles were on HDEO, and the bike still had the original clutch plates—and the clutch was still strong when I sold it. I reckon I’ll stay with HDEO…

 

[Lilliston]

Thanks for that. For what it's worth, the link gave a page 404 error. I haven't done an exhaustive search on the forum, however I don't recall them named, and there are folks in the industry that show up around here. Again, I haven't done an exhaustive search but it's never mentioned what those compounds are.

Sorry about that. I can't edit that post any longer. The ML article is a 404, but the forum thread is what I meant. HOWEVER, I think I put the wrong link in or something.

Glycerol monooleate was the FM mentioned in a different thread (by Shannow) in that other sub-forum. Sadly, the external link in that post or thread is ALSO broken.
)-:

 

[kschachn]

Yesir, I started using 15w40 HDEO in my motorcycles in the late 90s after I read an article in Motorcycle Consumer News (RIP) where they published oil analysis results comparing various motorcycle-specific oils against Rotella T 15w40. All the test bikes had wet clutches, and with one or two exceptions, the Rotella outperformed the other motorcycle-specific oils. I started buying Rotella and never looked back…after 25+ yrs of use in a dozen bikes, it’s never caused an issue.

I sold a Kawi KLR650 w/72K on the odo, and 60K of those miles were on HDEO, and the bike still had the original clutch plates—and the clutch was still strong when I sold it. I reckon I’ll stay with HDEO…

Interesting, I wonder what a spectrographic analysis showed in regards to wet clutch performance?

 

[Bonz]

I believe it was said earlier in this thread that spectrographic analysis does not show the compounds that are identified as friction modifiers.

To me, It's Magic pixie dust until somebody calls out what it is and why it is in such a great concentration to cause an issue.

 

[Overfill]

A majority of engine oils' additives are multifunctional, particularly to friction modification. Viscosity modifiers, ZDDP, Mo compounds, B compounds, Mg compounds, Ca compounds will all modify the frictional properties of the oil. It's not a matter of which one and how much of that specific one, but to what degree the friction is modifed between subject surfaces based upon the composition of the blend.

One doesn't exactly know unless the blend is tested for it. This is done by the additive manufacturers for wholesale product, or if made by a niche company--tested themselves.