Mercy Zee... why hasn't JASO nor API nor SAE found a way to calibrate your shift foot so we know for sure you're not a lazy shifter blaming the oil???
Rotella T6 5w40 OK for very short intervals?
- Thread starter buster26
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Mercy Zee... why hasn't JASO nor API nor SAE found a way to calibrate your shift foot so we know for sure you're not a lazy shifter blaming the oil???
That's what separates an experienced rider from a novice. No test requirement needed, just skills. 😄
I highly doubt it too, because most bikes have the shift pedal on the left side. 😄
I doubt it's all shear and loss of viscosity, but I'm sure the viscosity does have a bearing. More film thickness means more parts separation and less friction between moving parts. Have you ever noticed that the transmission seems to shift better when the oil is cold for the first 10~15 minutes of a ride ... I have on my bikes. The only thing different is the viscosity of the oil at that time vs when the engine has been at full operating temperature for awhile.
Every bike is different, don't be afraid to run short intervals and then dump it for something else, lots of people have luck with the T6 but then others do not, I do believe the 15w40 would be better than their 5w40 at least in regards to shearing.
For my Ninja 650 I use Valvoline Full Synthetic 10w40 motorcycle oil, you can get it for a good price at Walmart or least used to be able too.
For my Ninja 650 I use Valvoline Full Synthetic 10w40 motorcycle oil, you can get it for a good price at Walmart or least used to be able too.
Not if you had an old school British bike, but then it's mostly parked and broken down, so how would one know anyways...I highly doubt it too, because most bikes have the shift pedal on the left side. 😄
I doubt it's all shear and loss of viscosity, but I'm sure the viscosity does have a bearing. More film thickness means more parts separation and less friction between moving parts. Have you ever noticed that the transmission seems to shift better when the oil is cold for the first 10~15 minutes of a ride ... I have on my bikes. The only thing different is the viscosity of the oil at that time vs when the engine has been at full operating temperature for awhile.
Actually my 2000 Honda Valkyrie is the opposite. Clunks a lot when cold, once it warms up it's a lot smoother and less clunky. Go figure
Shift feel deteriorates with some oils, and fairly predictably, period. Ride enough bikes and different oils and it's evident. Right foot shift, good save on that one as legislation was passed in the mid 70's that made BSA move it to the left. Most folks here would not use that as the basis for a comparison as it's been 50 years more or less since the last right shift bikes were sold in this country, and dang few of them at that. I'm sure that was a test to see if folks were paying attention. Humor intended.
BLS, I was making the observation that saying oil cannot shear two grades, is absolute. There is nothing to my knowledge saying it cannot shear two grades, only that in most analysis it is down one grade as you have shown. Apologies for not being clear on that. Sounds like Jim at Mobil doesn't ride much, and would never say anything about shear if he wants to keep his job. Good CYA answer from him.
BLS, I was making the observation that saying oil cannot shear two grades, is absolute. There is nothing to my knowledge saying it cannot shear two grades, only that in most analysis it is down one grade as you have shown. Apologies for not being clear on that. Sounds like Jim at Mobil doesn't ride much, and would never say anything about shear if he wants to keep his job. Good CYA answer from him.
Negative Zee... what separates guess and by golly feelings requires an standardized shift test because every rider shift feel is different... if you change the skilled rider and you change the results...
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Not really ... a skilled rider will be able to correctly shift and sense the feel of the shifing on every bike they ride much better than an unskilled rider could. A skilled rider is tuned into and part of the machine and much better at sensing what's going on with the machine ... an unskilled rider is not.
Do you ever sense anything that's going on with your machine when you ride it?
We are not talking about H pattern transmissions here, but sequential ones. Skill level for those is quite minimal. You pull up or press down and feel the click. That's about it. And if you have a slipper clutch, no need to rev match on downshifts.Not really ... a skilled rider will be able to correctly shift and sense the feel of the shifing on every bike they ride much better than an unskilled rider could. A skilled rider is tuned into and part of the machine and much better at sensing what's going on with the machine ... an unskilled rider is not.
Do you ever sense anything that's going on with your machine when you ride it?
Riding a motorcycle sure requires some unique skills, but gear shifting is not one of them IMO.
Lol, BLS. In my experience matching revs has nothing to do with shift quality and feel. Going with a quick shifter I could agree to that statement. But a slipper clutch has nothing to do with the way it feels to the toe. I guess some guys have more sensitive toes than others, like some guys he goes are more sensitive to being out in left field and can't see the forest for the trees when called on it.
Yeah, I know ... that's why a skilled rider that is in tune with their bike can tell when the shifting feel changes on a bike they have rode for 1000s of miles. Not all guys riding motorcycles have numb feet, lol. But even though it's relatively "simple" to shift a motorcycle transmission, there is still skill involved with the synchronization of the clutch lever, throttle and foot that can make a difference on the feel of the shift. A skilled rider can do that very well on any bike they ride. An unskilled rider, not so much.
You brought skill to the conversation where skills have nothing to do with the ability to feel changes to the bike. That's experience and knowing your machine and how it behaves.
You do not know for sure how many years it takes to hone a skilled rider...
You do not know for sure what a skilled rider is sensing on every bike they ride...
You do not know for sure because you have no standardized shift feel test...
What you think you know for sure is all guess and by golly...
You must test to verify your assumptions...
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Do you ever sense anything that's going on with your machine when you ride it?
True to it's racing intent the sense is Mr.RC45 loves triple digits on the perverted highway...
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Not really (the bold part), because as I mentioned the lack of skill in shifting (especially in the whole synchronization of the hands and foot) can skew what's actually going on, and therefore mask the ability to discern shifting quality differences. Only a skilled rider who has that all down without even thinking about it will then be able to tell the difference in the way the transmission shifts based on the oil being used.
😄 ... I know exactly what I'm sensing when I ride a motorcycle or drive a car. I'm fully in tune with the machine, have been that way for many years. Like I asked before, is there anything you can sense and tell a difference in your RC when you ride it? You've been riding long enough to at least be able to sense things that are different or change when you ride it ... no? You make it sounds like humans have zero senses of the world they live in, lol
I honestly don't know what you're talking about at this point. Maybe if one is just learning to ride motorcycles, and since you mentioned thinking about shifts that would put them into this category, they could somehow contribute to bad shifts with their ill synchronized clutch/throttle application. Experienced rider I don't think have that problem. I certainly don't think about my shifts and I suspect most other riders are the same.
I can upshift/downshift without using the clutch and I never felt any difference in gear lever feel when compared to using the clutch.
My favorite is pre-loading the shift lever before the shift, and then, with just a touch of clutch, the next gear pops in. It makes for fast and smooth shifting. But the shifting feel itself doesn't change between these methods.
What I'm saying is anyone who is an inexperienced rider and/or not "tuned into" well with the bike will have no idea how tell any difference in shift quality. Knowing how to execute a perfect shift will help to not mask the oil variable in shift quality. So, since you sound like an experience rider, are you saying you have never sensed any changes in the way your bike shifts based on the oil used, or how long the oil is ran?
Keep in mind that not all transmissions are designed the same, and some are most likely more sensitive to the quality and condition of the oil used compared to others. I've owned and ridden enough motorcycles to know some shift better than others due to design. The difference between my Busa and XSR900 is really noticeable ... the Busa has a super short shift pedal throw compared to the XSR which actually makes it easier to shift the Busa.
Granted but what you are sensing is a personal truth... these are your
feelings and we believe to be true because of whatever experiences or
beliefs matter to us and to convince someone else of that truth it will
be a matter of verbal persuasion...
Standardized test will establish objective truth... Objective truth;
as that which has been established as true by virtue of large bodies
of experiment and observations and Its true no matter if we believe
its true or not...
SAE does not grade oil by verbal persuasion... they grade oil by
objective truth... where is your objective truth???
LoL ... so you really don't trust your senses to detect changes happening on a machine you've ridden for years and 1000s of miles? Have you ever noticed a difference in anything going on over all those miles? Do you need a calibrated test machine to validate what you sense because you don't trust your own body and senses ... or don't you have very keen senses and can't tell when a change occurs? If you do sense a change, do you believe it's actually happening, or instead think you might be hallucinating and need a lab test to validate you weren't? 😄
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