RIP Philip Seymour Hoffman, age 46

[Garak]

I certainly do agree that pain prescriptions can cause problems. That's why they're available by prescription and not sitting beside the Aspirin. Of course, we have some serious problems with double doctoring and even foolish doctors, but the theory is that if someone is dying of cancer, a doctor isn't going to worry about him being a morphine addict for the last two weeks of his life.

We can also point to all kinds of worldwide examples. Look at Russia. The health problems from excessive drinking have decreased, rather than increased. Of course, talking heads invoke opposing arguments as to why that's the case, and that's not on topic anyhow. There are pretty significant regional differences in substance use and abuse in North America, too. We can learn from other countries, but we must pay attention to the limits of the lesson. Rural Saskatchewan and rural North Dakota are much more alike than New York City and rural North Dakota.

I'm for personal responsibility in the matter. I used to drink way, way too much in my younger days. Enough was enough, and I haven't touched it in over a decade. I used to chew tobacco, but quit that cold turkey thanks to the oppressive taxes here. You do not want to know the price of a tin of Skoal or Copenhagen up here.

 

[andrewg]

Fact is you can't save people from themselves. Unless one is a complete vegetable from the get-go, a plethora of information exists knowing the dangers and pitfalls of booze and drugs. Government programs, teaching abstinence, making all drug use legal....none if it really matters as much as what each individual decides to do at the start. People die. People will always die from foolish choices...drugs or otherwise.
Personally.....I don't really care as long as I'm not carrying the burden in any form.

 

[uc50ic4more]

Originally Posted By: andrewg
People will always die from foolish choices...drugs or otherwise.


That is true and it is so sad what people do to themselves in various destructive ways.

Originally Posted By: andrewg
Personally.....I don't really care as long as I'm not carrying the burden in any form.


This attitude being one of those ways.

 

[antiqueshell]

Originally Posted By: uc50ic4more


Originally Posted By: andrewg
Personally.....I don't really care as long as I'm not carrying the burden in any form.


This attitude being one of those ways.


While it seems cruel to say what andrew states, he is being honest.

Do you think the drug addict cares about his reckless actions which could injure or kill innocent bystanders? No.

 

[uc50ic4more]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Do you think the drug addict cares about his reckless actions which could injure or kill innocent bystanders? No.


No. This, though, is why we might strive to behave toward a slightly higher standard of decency?

 

[andrewg]

Originally Posted By: uc50ic4more
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Do you think the drug addict cares about his reckless actions which could injure or kill innocent bystanders? No.


No. This, though, is why we might strive to behave toward a slightly higher standard of decency?

Are you saying that I should care more about individuals that are self destructive? In what way? More compassion? What good does that do to help the person? Not much....it may even enable them. Should I pay for something out of my own earnings for another persons poor choices? My standard of decency is realistic in my mind. All kinds of help exists for addicts and such....am I to constantly reach my hand out to somebody like Hoffman? Sorry (not really) but being reckless, foolish, ignorant, and simply stupid....well, that's all part of life...including the consequences. Perhaps the standard of decency should be more aptly placed upon the individual that causes untold pain and difficulties on those that care about them.

 

[Win]

Originally Posted By: uc50ic4more
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Do you think the drug addict cares about his reckless actions which could injure or kill innocent bystanders? No.


No. This, though, is why we might strive to behave toward a slightly higher standard of decency?


That's just enabling them.

Newsflash: don't stick a needle in your arm - it can kill you. Really, this seems like much ado about nothing.

I didn't even think he was that great an actor.

 

[threeputtpar]

Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh
Originally Posted By: threeputtpar
...
What a narcassitic, self-gratifying load of bull puckey! The way I see it, this was just another death of a "human" being that was scraped from the bottom of the gene pool barrel. Nothing more and nothing less.

And for anything that Russell Brand says, that waste of space should have been taken out back and dispatched of years ago.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony


Now you're just embarrassing yourself. I'm by no means the perfect human being, and I probably will never even come close, but I would never willingly do anything to deprive my wife and children of the person that they care the deepest for.

This guy was, above all else, a drug user. That should trump any and all accomplishments that he ever attainted in the professional world. His decisions directly affected far more lives than his own, and far more than he could have ever comprehended. For him to state that he hoped his inevitable death by the needle would hopefully save some other drug users was just his way to justify his behavior to himself.

For his life to be celebrated in any way is a slap in the face of decent humans that have been called from this mortal world all too soon. I felt the same way when everyone was gushing over Michael Jackson's death. Yes, he was an immensely talented musician, but he was also a pedophile and major drug addict. Why should that type of person be celebrated? We are loosing the good people faster and in far greater numbers than what we gain in the bad.

I think that the fed should get into the drug business and become the sole producer and distributor of all hard drugs. Then they should poison the entire supply and effectively end the drug problem in this country in about 6 months. But that would put all of the peripheray businesses to the drug trade out of business, and we can't have that.

Better put, we should just get out of the way of Darwinism and let it do its thing in most cases.

 

[surfstar]

I wonder if the following means something to those who are denigrating him the loudest:

Let he who is without...

 

[dave1251]

All I have to say is I do not condone his actions and I have personally seen the effects of heroine and I.V. drug use may have many years after quitting.

That being said he was human far from prefect made mistakes, was selfish, negatively, and positively affected many lives. I do not believe we should glorify his lifestyle and negative choices in any way. But I do also believe it is not our place to judge him.

Let the man rest in peace he is gone and railroading a dead man does no one any good.

 

[andrewg]

Originally Posted By: dave1251
All I have to say is I do not condone his actions and I have personally seen the effects of heroine and I.V. drug use may have many years after quitting.

That being said he was human far from prefect made mistakes, was selfish, negatively, and positively affected many lives. I do not believe we should glorify his lifestyle and negative choices in any way. But I do also believe it is not our place to judge him.

Let the man rest in peace he is gone and railroading a dead man does no one any good.

Never understood that notion of "not judging". How else do we learn about choices....or stay away from danger? Judgement is a very important part of human survival and progression.
While I'll agree that at some point it's best to back off the denigrating of this addict, but at the same time the other group that seems to give him a pass and provide excuse after excuse....well, that should cease as well.
He's gone...he destroyed his life...learn from it.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: andrewg
Never understood that notion of "not judging". How else do we learn about choices....or stay away from danger? Judgement is a very important part of human survival and progression.

I think the real concern is public judging and vilification. Judging another person's actions as ill advised and learning from that is certainly acceptable, and desirable.

 

[dave1251]

Well sir a human being is dead after making many horrible judgements that took his life. What good does you being up there proclaiming this man's sins and mistakes does any good? I do not see what good can become of this.

This man made many mistakes but that is his right to make them, I believe that is everyone's right to do so. Also I believe everyone faces the consequences of their actions. The mistakes he made led to his early demise. That being said there are people that did care and love this man and for their sakes running a man into the ground that is already dead does no good at all.

I hope once we all go no matter the mistakes and sins we have committed there is no one out there on their high horse proclaiming our misdeeds and digging another grave for us for the sake of the ones that care for us.

 

[javacontour]

Repeating what I said before....

Originally Posted By: javacontour
Isn't it funny how many of the same who say "don't judge" are the first to say you are selfish (or insert any other judgment leveled) if you don't agree with them?

 

[uc50ic4more]

Originally Posted By: andrewg
Are you saying that I should care more about individuals that are self destructive?


I am not saying you **should** anything. It seems, though, like they're the ones who could use a friendly presence in their life the most. Would it harm you or anyone to have compassionate, rather than contemptuous feelings toward "them"?

Do you feel like your contempt is doing good or not? Feeling antipathy towards people, in addition to having *zero* effect on their life, certainly isn't a healthful influence on yours.

 

[uc50ic4more]

Originally Posted By: Win
Originally Posted By: uc50ic4more
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Do you think the drug addict cares about his reckless actions which could injure or kill innocent bystanders? No.


No. This, though, is why we might strive to behave toward a slightly higher standard of decency?


That's just enabling them.


I would love to hear you explain in greater detail how us NOT behaving like addicts is enabling addicts. I am almost certain that the point of one of our posts has been lost in cyberspace! ;^)

 

[andrewg]

Originally Posted By: uc50ic4more
Originally Posted By: andrewg
Are you saying that I should care more about individuals that are self destructive?


I am not saying you **should** anything. It seems, though, like they're the ones who could use a friendly presence in their life the most. Would it harm you or anyone to have compassionate, rather than contemptuous feelings toward "them"?

Do you feel like your contempt is doing good or not? Feeling antipathy towards people, in addition to having *zero* effect on their life, certainly isn't a healthful influence on yours.

I have great contempt that we foster a culture in this nation where we give drug users more excuses than blame.
Would it "harm" me to have compassion? I don't think so...but it would certainly be a waste of my emotions.
The antipathy I express is from experiences I've had with drug addicts. My own brother died in part from being a cocaine addict. Did it help my brother to be compassionate toward his addiction? No. Most addicts are a waste of space and in my mind deserve pity more than compassion.
So tell me....what do YOU do to assist those with drug addictions? You seem to feel such sorrow and compassion toward them. Do YOU spend time helping them? Do you give money to causes aimed at rehabilitation? Would you be willing to open your home as a half-way house for them?
Just curious.

 

[threeputtpar]

Originally Posted By: javacontour
Repeating what I said before....

Originally Posted By: javacontour
Isn't it funny how many of the same who say "don't judge" are the first to say you are selfish (or insert any other judgment leveled) if you don't agree with them?


Judging people on the facts set forth are what every human does naturally, it's a survival instinct. This has nothing to do with agreement.

And for the record, I don't see his death as an overdose. He committed suicide, because he knew that what he was doing would absolutely lead to his death. Whether or not anyone wants to classify it as an addiction is irrelevant. It's no different than stringing up a rope and jumping off of the kitchen table, it just took longer.

 

[andrewg]

Originally Posted By: threeputtpar
Originally Posted By: javacontour
Repeating what I said before....

Originally Posted By: javacontour
Isn't it funny how many of the same who say "don't judge" are the first to say you are selfish (or insert any other judgment leveled) if you don't agree with them?


Judging people on the facts set forth are what every human does naturally, it's a survival instinct. This has nothing to do with agreement.

And for the record, I don't see his death as an overdose. He committed suicide, because he knew that what he was doing would absolutely lead to his death. Whether or not anyone wants to classify it as an addiction is irrelevant. It's no different than stringing up a rope and jumping off of the kitchen table, it just took longer.

Good post.

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted By: threeputtpar
It's no different than stringing up a rope and jumping off of the kitchen table, it just took longer.


I view heavy smoking (and/or heavy alcohol consumption) the same EXACT way, but neither of those addictive 'suicides' are as socially unacceptable/despised in this land (especially not in, how shall I state this, the more 'manly' states/areas, where they are socially EXPECTED).