Rev matching on downshifts

[ls1mike]

If going from third to second gear, how is the RPMs going to increase when down shifting if you don't rev-match?



Do you let the clutch slip long enough so the engine RPMs match the wheel speeds?

They have all had McLeod Twin disk, just depends on how I feel or what I am doing. I usually just through it in neutral when coming to stop. Never really thought about but I don't rev match when down shifting, I don't even let the engine match the wheels speeds.

 

[ls1mike]

So if you are downshifting from 4th to 2nd, doing a 90deg turn in town, you don't rev match? Not a little blip to bring up the revs? Seems odd, why drive manual at all then? Do you just coast and slip the clutch slowly until it brings up the revs? Or do a lurch on a faster shift?

I'm certainly not racing everywhere I go, but I rev match all the time, because its smoother mostly, and no one hears me with the stock exhaust, and its good practice for a fun backroad or the track.

No I don't need to. I will take a video the next time I am out driving it. These cars have never lurched. I don't have to downshift as much as you guys do I guess. Tons of usable torque and HP, I am guessing that is the big difference. Never really had a high reving low HP car to compare it with. I am sure you drive it way different than I do my manual cars. The guys I know with 6 speed F-bodies don't rev match unless they are road racing.

 

[TiGeo]

If going from third to second gear, how is the RPMs going to increase when down shifting if you don't rev-match?



Do you let the clutch slip long enough so the engine RPMs match the wheel speeds?

I just slow down in third, RPMs drop and I shift to second when they are low enough that this isn't a big delta when I release the clutch in second? I guess I just let the RPMs jump up which seems to be all the drama? I'll have to do it next time I drive my son's car. I've never seen anyone rev match in a stick in my life the more I think about it hahahaha.

 

[TiGeo]

So if you are downshifting from 4th to 2nd, doing a 90deg turn in town, you don't rev match? Not a little blip to bring up the revs? Seems odd, why drive manual at all then? Do you just coast and slip the clutch slowly until it brings up the revs? Or do a lurch on a faster shift?

I'm certainly not racing everywhere I go, but I rev match all the time, because its smoother mostly, and no one hears me with the stock exhaust, and its good practice for a fun backroad or the track.

HAHAHA - MEJ has entred the chat...I knew it was only a matter of time before someone had to one-up someone with their totally rad manual ways to flex on all of us normies.

When exactly would you need to go 4 to 2 in a 90 in town/normal driving that would require this? I would be slowing down enough ahead of the 90 to be able downshift without having the speed/RPM be such to cause a massive jolt when I went to second without blipping. Don't get me wrong, I get what this is/does/purpose but I guess I just don't drive that aggressively around town that it causes issues not doing it. It's a nice thing to do. Also, to do the 4 to 2 90, you really have to heel-toe that rev match b/c you are going to be on the brakes up until and probably through part of that 90 deg turn and I can't do that in the car we have with a stick. I have no idea how I've driven manuals for the last 34 years not doing it I guess or "why I bothered".

 

[ls1mike]

I just took a survey of my office. We have a 2021 WRX, a 2019 392 Challenger, my 2000 WS6, a 1990 22R Toyota truck, and a 2019 BRZ.
They are all manuals.

The guy with BRZ tracks his often and he will rev match during a track day but that is about it.

None of us rev match during normal driving. We might at the track or messing around. I am sure it happens. I just don't see it often day to day here and we have a lot of young sailors with Mustangs, Camaros, WRXs, STIs and BRZs.

Going from 6th to 4th or 4th to 2nd in the WS6 is drama free.

 

[PF52]

None of us rev match during normal driving. We might at the track or messing around. I am sure it happens. I just don't see it often day to day here and we have a lot of young sailors with Mustangs, Camaros, WRXs, STIs and BRZs.

Going from 6th to 4th or 4th to 2nd in the WS6 is drama free.

Same here. It quickly becomes second nature to find where all the curves meet: the right speed, the right RPM and the right gear choice while going around a corner, no lurching or lugging of the car necessary and no advanced techniques needed.

 

[wpod]

Drive a semi with a manual transmission and you will learn about rpm matching instantly.

 

[Pew]

WHen exactly would you need to go 4 to 2 in a 90 in town/normal driving that would require this? I would be slowing down enough ahead of the 90 to be able downshift without having the speed/RPM be such to cause a massive jolt when I went to second without blipping. Don't get me wrong, I get what this is/does/purpose but I guess I just don't drive that aggressively around town that it causes issues not doing it. It's a nice thing to do. Also, to do the 4 to 2 90, you really have to heel-toe that rev match b/c you are going to be on the brakes up until and probably through part of that 90 deg turn and I can't do that in the car we have with a stick. I have no idea how I've driven manuals for the last 34 years not doing i

I can't explain properly so I took a snip and did some amazing MS Paint work to help explain what my process is. So say I'm driving a 5-speed doing 50mph going south, about to turn right (west) to an arterial road. Once I get into the turn lane, I would rev-match from 2500rpms in fifth to 3200rpms in fourth and let the engine slow me down without having to touch the brakes. About half way I can downshift from and rev-match into third and continue to let the engine slow me down without clutch braking. As I'm about to make my right turn, I will rev-match into second @ ~25mph and make the turn around 18-23mph. If the stars align, I can make this turn without touching the brakes except maybe at the very end right before the turn. Also, if need be I can be at a low RPM third gear while making the turn but that ends up making me lug the engine with a turbo'd car.

If you had to go down path, would you stay in fifth until you make the turn then shift down to second/third without rev matching?

 

[wpod]

The big truck transmission I learned on was a 10 speed Road Ranger. If you tried to use the clutch between gears or missed a gear, you had to come to a complete stop to get it back in gear. Once rolling from a stop, it was only synced shifting and never with the clutch. Yeah, you don't even think about it after about the first 10,000 shifts.

Being proficient with a Road Ranger transmission is one of the most enjoyable things I have ever achieved, yeah I am simple. Still today when I worked out of the Temos line drivers local ,I would get called by Mervyn's department stores trucking to go from their warehouse in Hayward California to drop a trailer and pick up the empty Portland Oregon and drop a trailer and pick up the empty Vancouver Washington and would get a Ford CL 9000 one of the nicest trucks ever made with a Detroit 6 -92 TTA and it had the power of a good running 350 HP Cummins of the period and paired to a 13 speed Road Ranger made driving the truck through the mountains on I - 5 one on the most fun things I have ever done. I owned Porsches and motorcycles back then ! I would have made the run for free .

 

[PF52]

If you had to go down path, would you stay in fifth until you make the turn then shift down to second/third without rev matching?

We understand what you're doing of course, but what on Earth for? Because it sounds cool with your aftermarket exhaust? I'm assuming it's the car in your picture, not some giant semi.

I'd rather leave it in 5th, slow up as needed using the brakes, clutch in one time, shift to 2nd and make the corner and lo and behold the engine has already slowed to an RPM appropriate for 2nd just like that. Smooth as silk. And my clutch and throwout bearings will last a LOT longer.

 

[Pew]

We understand what you're doing of course, but what on Earth for? Because it sounds cool with your aftermarket exhaust? I'm assuming it's the car in your picture, not some giant semi.

I'd rather leave it in 5th, slow up as needed using the brakes, clutch in one time, shift to 2nd and make the corner and lo and behold the engine has already slowed to an RPM appropriate for 2nd just like that. Smooth as silk. And my clutch and throwout bearings will last a LOT longer.

It allowed the car to be at an appropriate RPM range at all times. It's habit. It did not matter what type of car I drove at the time, I did it with any manual car.

Evo had 130K with many track days and launches. Focus had 230K miles. Never destroyed a clutch, not even learning how to drive manual.

 

[IndyIan]

HAHAHA - MEJ has entred the chat...I knew it was only a matter of time before someone had to one-up someone with their totally rad manual ways to flex on all of us normies.

When exactly would you need to go 4 to 2 in a 90 in town/normal driving that would require this? I would be slowing down enough ahead of the 90 to be able downshift without having the speed/RPM be such to cause a massive jolt when I went to second without blipping. Don't get me wrong, I get what this is/does/purpose but I guess I just don't drive that aggressively around town that it causes issues not doing it. It's a nice thing to do. Also, to do the 4 to 2 90, you really have to heel-toe that rev match b/c you are going to be on the brakes up until and probably through part of that 90 deg turn and I can't do that in the car we have with a stick. I have no idea how I've driven manuals for the last 34 years not doing it I guess or "why I bothered".

Eh, I'm no totally rad manual flexer guy as I've got no "vtak", or a backfire tune loaded to fire my 4 cyl fart cannon exhaust... But once I started rev matching a in normal driving, it does feel awkward not doing it. I dunno, give it a try next time. Pew's picture post explains it well, and some of the time I'll just skip gears, like the 4 to 2 shift.
I don't have to shift gears as much as I do I suppose, even my car will run fine in 3rd around town from 20 to 60mph , but I'm looking for mpg's so I run 5th in town all the time and go down to 2nd or 3rd for 90deg corners.
Now one thing I haven't practiced all that much is no lift shifts, if I was a totally rad manual flex guy, I would have those down pat... chirping the tires into 3rd with my beater wagon on my way to a low 17!
Also I don't want to replace a clutch anytime soon!

 

[ls1mike]

but I'm looking for mpg's
Now one thing I haven't practiced all that much is no lift shifts, if I was a totally rad manual flex guy, I would have those down pat... chirping the tires into 3rd with my beater wagon on my way to a low 17!
Also I don't want to replace a clutch anytime soon!

MPGs? What is that? Pshaw.

I can't count the amount of no lift shift the my F-bodies have had at the track. I can tell you how man 10 bolts I have had to replace though...Now it is Ford 9 inch rear diffs for me.

 

[willbur]

Same back at ya.

Do you even know what that word means, Einstein?

 

[TiGeo]

I can't explain properly so I took a snip and did some amazing MS Paint work to help explain what my process is. So say I'm driving a 5-speed doing 50mph going south, about to turn right (west) to an arterial road. Once I get into the turn lane, I would rev-match from 2500rpms in fifth to 3200rpms in fourth and let the engine slow me down without having to touch the brakes. About half way I can downshift from and rev-match into third and continue to let the engine slow me down without clutch braking. As I'm about to make my right turn, I will rev-match into second @ ~25mph and make the turn around 18-23mph. If the stars align, I can make this turn without touching the brakes except maybe at the very end right before the turn. Also, if need be I can be at a low RPM third gear while making the turn but that ends up making me lug the engine with a turbo'd car.

If you had to go down path, would you stay in fifth until you make the turn then shift down to second/third without rev matching?

View attachment 164011

Great drawing man! Thank you. Yes, I would just slow down with the brakes until I was near the corner and down shift to probably 4th or maybe 3rd if I was going 40mph, not second. My speed would make it so by the time I went through the turn I could downshift wihtout rev matching and this wouldn't be a problem w/r to jolting etc.

 

[TiGeo]

We understand what you're doing of course, but what on Earth for? Because it sounds cool with your aftermarket exhaust? I'm assuming it's the car in your picture, not some giant semi.

I'd rather leave it in 5th, slow up as needed using the brakes, clutch in one time, shift to 2nd and make the corner and lo and behold the engine has already slowed to an RPM appropriate for 2nd just like that. Smooth as silk. And my clutch and throwout bearings will last a LOT longer.

Yep.

 

[TiGeo]

Eh, I'm no totally rad manual flexer guy as I've got no "vtak", or a backfire tune loaded to fire my 4 cyl fart cannon exhaust... But once I started rev matching a in normal driving, it does feel awkward not doing it. I dunno, give it a try next time. Pew's picture post explains it well, and some of the time I'll just skip gears, like the 4 to 2 shift.
I don't have to shift gears as much as I do I suppose, even my car will run fine in 3rd around town from 20 to 60mph , but I'm looking for mpg's so I run 5th in town all the time and go down to 2nd or 3rd for 90deg corners.
Now one thing I haven't practiced all that much is no lift shifts, if I was a totally rad manual flex guy, I would have those down pat... chirping the tires into 3rd with my beater wagon on my way to a low 17!
Also I don't want to replace a clutch anytime soon!

Funny....my son just bought a '98 VW GTI, 5 speed, VR6 yesterday...oh boy...anyway.....I just took it for a rip around town to give the father test. I rev matched b/c lord that VR straight piped sounds good. I just don't find this necessary normally is all.

 

[TiGeo]

It allowed the car to be at an appropriate RPM range at all times. It's habit. It did not matter what type of car I drove at the time, I did it with any manual car.

Evo had 130K with many track days and launches. Focus had 230K miles. Never destroyed a clutch, not even learning how to drive manual.

100% you are always ready to floor it and have power this way, no doubt. Coasting in higher gears can cause the necessity to quickly have to fumble it into the right gear. I guess at this point in my life I don't know the last time that happened while slowing down to a corner.

 

[TiGeo]

Do you even know what that word means, Einstein?

Einstein, he was smart, like me, probably a bit pendantic like me as well.

 

[SHOZ]

You get a lot better gas mileage downshifting and coasting instead of braking with a manual. A lot better engine cooling too if it's an issue.